Morgan Silver Dollar toning.........

We have several toned AU Morgans and they tend to be darker than others. In New Orleans they were often used in circulation and then made their way back to the Mint and back into storage. So they may have had the same exposure to moisture and bag chemicals as uncirculated coins. Also remember that some toning came from album storage and sales enclosures and any coin could have made it into that environment regardless of circulation status.
http://www.1881o.com/toned-coins.html

Oh, as I remember the Mint officials added arsenic to the bag cloth to discourage rats from eating through them. So there is one exposure chemical that is sure to please.

 

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Yup. I've heard that about the arsenic too. I wonder what mint or peppermint oils would have done if they used that instead. In New York, there's a big push to start an ordinance requiring the use of mint oil infused garbage bags because mice and rats can't stand it.

 

Well in Morgan Dollar days scooping up the horse poop was considered to be environmentally correct, so mint oil would not have received much mind share. This page describes some of the environmental challenges of the day.

http://www.1881o.com/environment.html

It makes Henry Ford the greatest environmentalist of all time.

 

I can testify to that.

 

But supposing the collectors who put them in the jars, the tins, the drawers, paper wrappers, albums, rolls, even cigar boxes, did so intending they'd tone. Aren't they "AT?"

PS: I know better than to ask you this, Doug, without putting that big grin at the end of it.

 

That's a new one for me, but as they say: there's a first time for everything.

 

Well old Henry got rid of tons of manure that had to be disposed of each day. If you read the page you saw that in metro areas blocks of the city were designated for manure storage while they worked to get it out. Now imagine living next door to one of those blocks. Methane does have a certain fragrance to it that is difficult to forget, especially when stored in the heat. And then there were the dead horses left to rot in the streets. Oh the good old days!

 

I did read it and found it rather interesting. However, I simply had never heard anyone make the connection before. Rather outside the box, yes, but you do make a pretty good point.

 

Good question since I understand the TPGs are not real adept at differentiating between AT and real toning. I think you have to view toned coins like art. If you like it buy it and enjoy it, if not pass. I very rarely purchase one out of a slab because trying to get PCGS to consistently grade one is tough.

This beauty cost me a lot but it became a point of pride to try and get it graded something other than an N grade at PCGS.

http://www.1881o.com/81168198_tone.html

Its journey was to PCGS and back in an N grade slab. To ANACS where it graded. Back to PCGS as a crossover where it N graded. Cracked out to NGC where it graded. Back to PCGS where it N graded. So with nothing to lose I cleaned it, dipped it, soaked it, and sent it back to PCGS where it graded an MS63. Some things you do for fun not money!!!

 

I'm loving it. And you are soooo right! In fact, think about it. There's no such thing as "AT," anyway. "AT" is a completely arbitrary distinction, and certainly not something for a professional grader to standard grade-worthiness on. Nonetheless look at all the fool collectors these TPGs and so-called "experts" deluded simply by continuing to drill this arbitrary distinction into their fool heads. Fortunes were made and lost based on how they called tarnish. Fortunately, collectors of tarnish are starting to awaken. Sure took the poor fools long enough, I'll say that.

Tarnish is natural color on coins. Spray paint and nail polish are unnatural, i.e., they're artificial. If you like the tarnish, get it, and if you don't, don't get it. And don't be a big sucker for this arbitrary distinction, "AT," any longer.

 

I disagree with your line in there that it's not a beautifully toned coin! I love the look of that coin

 

I liked it also, but PCGS did not. It is an end roll coin that picked up too much tarnish from the wrapper and they would not grade it because of the degree of tarnish. Black = terminal color to many. My work took off a little of the excessive tarnish and returned it to something with color and did not create color.

Interestingly the same coin with the same end roll folds is featured in a reference book and I sent PCGS copies of that work to no success. Just proud it finally got a little success and stopped being the Rodney Dangerfield of my collection.

 

Doug. Before the GSA sales the mint was selling the bags and singles during the treasury releases for face value trade as you know. The GSA sales were just what was left and mostly the Carson City's. The US government decided to become coin dealers due to the high collector values of CC's. During the treasury releases we don't know exactly which dates were distributed but it was a heck of a lot more than just the Carson City's

 

As I understand it black is the completion of the toning process. So is that why people call it "terminal" as in it's not coming back it will always be black? Or does terminal imply the metal of the coin itself is compromised at that point?

 

And now, introducing the next generation: the SnowflakeMobile!

 

I cannot take credit for this because I am not a chemist and certainly know less about the topic than someone like Doug Kurz. Doug is the one that put together the Sunnywood Collection and developed a lot of knowledge he shared. His collection of monster toned coins may still be up on PCGS and if so it is certainly worth a few minutes to review.

As the silver reacts with its surroundings it develops a thin film of color that starts out as a light gold and then progresses to black. This chart has helped me a lot understand the stage of toning and how much the coin has reacted to various reagents. Black may be good for your tuxedo, but not for coin toning.

 

I think I need to go to my safe space for a while, I feel threatened by some sort of micro-aggression.