1864 L Indian Cent for grading

I took this coin to a show, and the dealers all called it "Fine" because LIBERTY is not bold. However, the wreath and feather detail suggest a mid-VF grade, so I concluded that the weak LIBERTY is due to strike weakness. I graded it as VF-20. Who is correct, me or the dealers?

 

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Sorry I'm seeing a vf coin, or what I would value it if purchasing it for my collection .

 

IMO, VF-20 should have all of Liberty readable.

 

+1

 

Yep , I agree

 

I'm afraid it's not at VF for me either, due to Liberty... This is actually the first coin I learned to grade and learned by looking for full liberty.

 

Agree...a fine coin at best.

 

Here is a PCGS-graded F-15. It has nowhere near the amount feather and wreath detail mine has.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1864-L-On-R...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

https://www.pcgs.com/Photograde/#/Indian/Grades
VF 20 shows full Liberty... VF15 shows weak liberty. I personally don't think yours shows uniform wear to justify giving it a higher grade due to weak strike.

 

And from the link you provided:

PCGS VF-30, with a weak Liberty. So what is right?

 

Did you note my comment about yours having wear that is not uniform? I think if your coin looked like the VF30 without such drastic wear, you might get away with it. However, in my opinion, yours appears to have excess wear on Liberty that would preclude it from a VF20. That is, of course, my opinion. I'm okay with disagreeing and saying we are both right or wrong.

 

If you are selling it, it's a Fine. If you are buying it, it's a VF.

What it comes down to is price. Grading these days is a short hand for pricing.

 

Yeah, that's about as succinctly as it can be put. Unfortunately.

Maybe we should start grading in dollar amounts.

 

I have to go with Fine.

 

I guess it does not really matter to me since I am only trying to get Fine money for it. I was just wondering how to grade it. I will disagree and agree with all of you and call it VF-25 details, with the damage being a patch of wear on LIBERTY, net F-15. You have to admit that, other than Liberty, this is a solid VF coin, probably one of the most premium F-15 Indian cents you will ever see.

I GUARANTEE you that if I sent this in, I would get VF-20/25 from PCGS and VF-30 from NGC, judging from what I see getting holdered.

 

I was going to like this post until that ridiculous ending where you claimed you can guarantee the grade. I'm half tempted to wager the cost of submission just to watch you eat your words.

 

There are dates in the early 1870's that have weak Libertys even when they are uncs.

It's like the Buffalos from the 1920's branch mi9nts. One can have an uncirculated coin and not have a full horn.

How would you grade those.

 

Not much difference between 15 and 20. The services do use different standards. PCGS and NGC will be very close on a coin like this. The overall look of the coin also effect the grade. Hits in the fields and on the rims play an important part.

 

In a sense we have a 70 point scale. Why not a fine 17?

 

What I was getting at was that PCGS and NGC (especially NGC) are overgrading Indian Cents like crazy. I say they will grade the coin VF, but that does not make it VF.