The biggest reason that the grading companys give to persuade you to submit things is that they will grade it. This is ridiculous-if you don't know how to grade, you shouldn't be buying coins worth enough money to be worth slabbing. And then they go on about authenication, how there are all these amazing fakes of top coins. But apart from a couple of altered date mercury dimes, I haven't seen a SINGLE fake of an American coin that would fool anyone who has leafed their way thorough the American section of a Krause catalougue, and thousands of chinese fakes of 1804 dollars. I see way more convincing fakes of Roman coins, etc... So where are the convincing fakes ?? Show me ! J. (sorry for being so anti-slabs...just cross after seing a Charles I halfcrown in a slab labbeled MS-64 which I wouldn't honestly grade F)
Tough I'll collect hat I want to and this flame war is already running in another thread so this one should be locked up. Ruben
There are certainly some very good fakes out there that could fool even experienced collectors. Many fakes are of poor quality, but there are many high quality US counterfeits out there. Yeah, there are certainly issues with the grading services, but collectors take comfort in fact the the top ones offer guarantees for their grading and authentication.
I too am not a big fan of TPG services. Hoewver, lately with the coin collecting craze being so big, I feel a slabbed coin is a lot more safe for coins with a slightly higher value. If you go to a lot of coin shows as I do you will hear numerous stories of fakes being sold everywhere. Of course there are a few stories of fake slabs also. So if the coin is fake and the slab is fake, how do you know anything. One dealer showed me a coin that had been returned to him as a counterfeit. He didn't think so, so he sent it to another grading service and it came back graded and in a slab. HMMMM. Other dealers at shows I know have shown me some really great fakes that I couldn't tell and many others couldn't tell. The higher the value, the better the fakes are becoming. A long time ago there was not so much to be made from fakes but now with the coin market so big, many, many fakes are selling.
I heard of a fake '33 Double Eagle that fooled a lot of people. They didn't know they were fake until a large number of them began showing up, and then they noticed a tiny 'maker's mark' on the reverse from the guy who faked all of them.
I've heard things both ways. Howabout a 1910 S US-Philippines ten-centavo in a slab? None are even known to exist today! Still, for sight-unseen coins, its the best thing out there. If I were to buy a keydate or something like that, I'd prefer it slabbed. (Not that I wouldn't try my like with a raw coin and an ANA counterfeit guide!) And yes, shortgapbob, I just said I'd buy a slabbed coin. Lol
I like slabs. I like the authentication, and my eyes aren't always good enough to grade coins smaller than a half dollar unless the lighting is very very good and the coin is removed from a 2X2 or other holder. I still wish TPGs would grade fakes as fakes and slab them as fakes. This is the only business in the world that can charge for not doing what they were paid to do.
Actuallly, its a business that hasn't succeeded at making clear what it does. It gives opinions, nothing more, nothing less. The various TPGs have different standards, but they all say that if your coin meets certain parameters, they will bolster their opinion by giving you a piece of plastic with the opinion embedded in it. When the coin doesn't meet their standards for entombment, they return it as is, and tell you why. Either way, they have given you the opinion you paid for! I challenge you to quote any TPG's promise to slab your coin regardless of what its opinion is.
I don't generally like slabbed coins, but I do think they're essential for authentication purposes when dealing with keys. Anybody can learn quickly how to grade a coin as well as any grading service, but it becomes a bit trickier to spot a well made fake, and there are an abundance of them. the Ebay fakes are rediculous enough that most anyone can spot them. But, I've seen some that only a handful of experts might spot. It's not a coin, but the "supernotes", or fake $100 bills ahve fooled even the Federal Reserve branches for who knows how many years. My cousin is a level 6 servailence tech in a Nevada casino, and they recenty got equipment good enough to pull these bills from tills, because humans couldn't see a difference, they responded correctly under untraviolet, and the watermarks were as good as real bills. He says they find anywhere from a dozen to four or five dozen of these a month...in one casino! So, there are fakes out there that are essentially as well made as the originals. If you buy an uncertifies key, you're not a very wise buyer. Just my opinion based on the facts out there. Guy~
I wonder if the biggest reason for opposition to slabs is really that experienced collector/dealers don't like someone second guessing their grading skills. I also saw a post that suggested that if you can't grade your own coins you should stay away from coins expensive enough to be slabbed. I'm hoping it was meant to be facetious. Slabbed coins make it much safer to buy and sell coins on line to a wider variety of collectors. It seems like the industry would appreciate more collectors in the market but the old-timers almost act like they don't want anyone else collecting. I am very supportive of slabbed modern US coins but I don't trust any grading service except PCGS. NGC is okay but in my opinion PCGS is the best. Many here will disagree but like I said, it's my opinion and we all have one.
Jerome, real or fake? Don't apologize for being anti-slab, that's your right. And I am one of the most fanatical anti-slab people here on the forum. Griv, They were referring to raw coins, and I would have to agree with GDJMSP, It makes a LOT of sense not to drop a lot of money on expensive raw coins if you don't know how to grade them. And Jerome, the 1804 cent is in a PCGS slab. And it's a fake.
