Tooled hairstyle.

Efes is renowned for its best numismatic portraits. This is particularly the case for Vespasian's. When I saw this denarius, I could not resist, eventhough I noticed later on that the emperor's hairstyle had been tooled.
My questions: (1)to what extent a tooled coin, even partially, looses its value;(2) to what extent would a collector renounce to buy a tooled coin? Bronze coins, sestertii, are the easiest and more frequently tooled coins, but nevertheless seem to sell well. .

 

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I thought that only bronze is tooled, silver never. Is that wrong?

 

Vespasian only wishes he had that much hair!

As to your question of how tooling impacts value, that depends on:

A. The collector
B. The type of coin in question
C. The type and extent of the tooling

For me, a little minor tooling to remove roughness on a bronze coin (called smoothing) can be acceptable, but should certainly be reflected in the price of the coin. Tooling that adds details (such as restoring lettering, adding hair etc cetera) is absolutely unacceptable and I would not want the coin in my collection at any price.

 

I wanted a tooled coin , this one sure fits the bill , paid $30 for it.

 

i would figure silver coin could and would/does get tooled too.

 

@Andres2 wow, that almost counts as an ancient hobo nickel!

 

hobo severioum omnesunius

 

Even though it may be tooled, it's still a 2000 year old coin. The tooling will only matter to an ancients collector who plans to sell it some day.

 

I used to own that coin! When I discovered it was tooled I returned it and was refunded.
Here is another specimen from the same obverse die. Notice the difference?



And to answer your questions: I cannot abide a tooled coin! Hence my returning it. As for worth - much less than an untooled specimen.

 

Not necessarily. I simply don't like having tooled coins in my collection at all and ask for a refund immediately if I decide anything fishy has gone on with one. I'd rather not own a particular type than own a tooled example when it comes down to it.

 

A great coin it is ephesus minted, i am thinking it is not tooled

 

Like most of us, I can accept some smoothing in the fields but I can't abide by alterations of the devices unless I purposely was purchasing a cheap/inexpensive specimen as an example of the 'type'. I just prefer my coins to be as 'natural' as possible.

 

Oops, I forgot to add that I would never purchase a coin that is suspect!

 

When I first started collecting bronzes about six years, my dealer who has 30+ years experience in ancients (Greek and Roman) told me that silver and gold was never tooled. That was true when he told me, but is clearly no longer true.

There can be a somewhat fine line between "smoothing" and "tooling," especially when it comes to bronzes. "Smoothing" generally is defined as the removal of surface encrustations that were not originally part of the coin and do not remove the patina. "Tooling" is the creation or addition of features that were not present on the coin as found, even if that particular type of coin would have had those features when it was struck.

Usually, but not always, a tooled coin is worth less to a serious collector than the original coin would have been, and certainly worth less than a non-tooled coin in condition similar to that of the tooled coin. One of the apparent exceptions was this Vespasian Judaea Capta sestertius sold by NAC in Nov. 2007, for $81,000 not including buyer's fee, that was described partly as "gently smoothed" but agreed to be tooled among my dealer and other dealers at the auction:



Here's an example of the same coin (not the same dies) that's not tooled (my own coin):

Sorry, but most assuredly, it's not true that tooling matters only if the collector plans to sell it someday. Yes, it's very difficult to find good-quality bronzes that haven't been tooled, and yes, it's still a 2000-year-old coin, but an untooled coin will always be much more highly sought-after than a tooled one.

 

-May I please ask you to point out the tooled surface of this coin and show a picture of the reverse ? Many thanks.

 

Well, you have the coin in hand and can see what is tooled. In any case, here is the original dealer's photo with the tooling marked.




I did not save the reverse of the obverse die match specimen sans tooling.

 

I purchased a tooled coin a couple of years ago. The way that I found out that it was tooled was from NGC when I submitted it to be slabbed. I was horrified. I couldn't decide what to do with it so I threw the coin into Baltimore Harbor. Ides, you're the first person that I've confessed this to.

 

I wouldn't suggest anything quite so drastic if you ever discover you have another possibly tooled coin. Most dealers will provide a refund given evidence of tooling even if they disagree and tooling can be a difficult subject. Sometimes it is obvious, but sometimes it takes a die match like the one illustrated by David above to either condemn or vindicate a coin, though of course finding one gets more difficult the more common a particular type is.

Most of the references commonly cited here have notes arguing that a particular type should be condemned because the author only knew of a single example which was believed to have been a tooled coin that started as something else. I know of at least a handful of cases where one or more die matched examples appeared later, proving them wrong. Thankfully no one threw those coins into the harbor!

 

Just from the image (unable to see inside the deep recesses), I think they did a great job! I only wish they would have "smoothed-out" the scratches while they were at it. On the other hand, fakers sometimes leave an obvious defect on a coin (so it's not too perfect) to draw one's eye away from an alteration.

Recently, in the US coin forum, I posted a 1916-D dime with a crudely misshaped "D" added to a 1916-P dime to make it valuable. The coin was cleaned and had a large black corrosion spot. My OP asked how much the spot affected the value - not that the coin was altered. Several posters did not notice the "added D!" I got criticized for my deception while trying to teach the whiners over there a good lesson: "Check your coins carefully."

Anyway, as you all know, ancient coins are often "improved" in some way. IMO, as long as you are able to detect the authenticity or "improvements" so you can make an informed choice, all's well. It is up to you what to purchase.

Some dealers are not that good (even the best can be fooled on occasion - I'm not referring to them). Time in the business may not always the best way to judge your dealer. For example, the dealer with thirty years of experience who said silver and gold ancients are not tooled is either stupid, ignorant, or both! I saw tooled silver and gold ancients in the 1970's.

 

This statement itself is stupid, ignorant, and both.

No, my dealer is none of these. Having been cited numerous times in auction catalogs, and having helped Mike Gasvoda assemble one of the great 12 Caesars collections in history, he is certainly one of the most well-respected dealers in the industry. Your level of ignorance and arrogance in making the above statement is staggering.