Anyone Have Whitman Official ANA Grading Standards?

I just got the 6th Edition, Copyright 2006. If you have it, please look at the standards and pics for IH Cents in F-12 and VG-8. I know the pictures aren't great, but the text does not seem to go with the assigned pic in either one!

Under VG-8 it says "Some letters in LIBERTY show; any combination of two full letters and parts of others is sufficient." There is no way the coin in that pic meets those criteria! Under F-12 it says "LIBERTY normally shows with no letters missing." I can't even find two full letters on that coin! AAARRRGGHH!

I'll admit it - I am a visually-oriented person. I do much better with pictures than words. I have a 1908-S IH that looks just like the pic they show for F-12 - same detail in shield and feathers, LIBERTY looks same (which makes it not meet the criteria in the text either!).

This is frustrating...:headbang:

Thanks,
Wally

 

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According to my 6th edition ANA Grading standards....

VG8 is...Outline of feathers show but some are smooth. Legend and date are visable. Some letters in LIBERTY show; any combination of the two full letters and parts of others is sufficient.
Reverse: Slight detail in wreath shows, but the top is worn smooth. Very little outline shows in the bow. Rim is complete.

F12....Obverse: Some detail shows in the hair and feathers. Ribbon is worn smooth. LIBERTY normally shows with no letters missing.
Reverse: Some details are visable in the wreath and bow. Tops of leaves are worn smooth.

Is this the same as your book reads?

The difference to me looks like the detail in the feathers. In the grade of Fine all letters normally show where in VG8 at least two full letters must show. On the reverse the difference would be in the details of the wreath and bow, more detail would show in the Fine grade where the VG8 there would just be an outline of the wreath and bow. Thats my interpretation of the difference between the two. There may be others here that see it differently.

 

Thanks for your reply.

I understand the difference between the two. What I am bewildered by is the pictures shown for each grade. When you look at the pic for F-12, do you see "LIBERTY normally shows with no letters missing."?

Or, look at pic for VG-8 - I can't pick a SINGLE full letter out of there, let alone "any combination of two full letters and parts of others".

Thanks,
Wally

 

You're right about the pictures. As far as I can tell, except for the VG8 being a little darker in color, which really doesnt matter, there is virtually no difference that I can tell as far as detail goes. I've never noticed that before. Good question.

 

I agree, and a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb185/hgraves_2007/Coins001.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb185/hgraves_2007/Coins002.jpg

 

I go by pictures.

 

BeauCoinCollect
were those pictures both for the VG or the VG & Fine?

 

You don't understand. That was an 1877 pictured. It is a key date. In that condition it is a grading service VG. If it was an 1876 it would have just been a Good. (The services will sometimes give key dates a pass and grade them higher than they would a common date. Look at 16-D dimes. I have seen coins graded VG-8 in the major services slabs that didn't have complete rims on either side of the coin.)

 

I understand
If the ANA Grading Standards were giving examples in their book as a learning tool and a guide I cant believe they would mislead the readers by putting a picture of an 1877 key date Indian cent in the grade of good in the VG8 grade description just because it may be an exception. I have a 1916-d Merc Dime ANACS AG3 which has a rim on the obverse and none on the reverse, in which case mine should grade a VF going by your theory. Show me that 1916-d VG8 with no rims graded by a top TPG service and I'll tell you that its overgraded and overpriced and I wouldnt buy it. If anything, TPGs should be stricter with key dates.

 

Both pictures were for VG.

 

The 1877 picture is included in the VG8 description and the 1860 is in the F12 description. Two seperate pictures for two seperate grades.

 

Indianhead,

The first part of my comment was tougue in cheek, but the last part was serious. I DO see a lot of key coins, especially the 16D dime slabbed by the top services in Good or even VG that are missing rims on one or even both sides. And I also say they are overgraded and would not buy them. But they are out there and newbies that don't know how to grade themselves but who are just following advise to "Only buy slabbed coins" do buy them at market prices.

Yes, if anything the services should be strict on the key dates, but often they are not. (Common coins that are Grade rarities on the other hand they are very strict about. Probably because they have a greater exposure under their grading guarantees.)

 

Yes I agree, There are certainly alot of new collectors out there that will purchase a slabbed coin graded by a top three TPG and will pay for whatever grade that is on the slab, sometimes overgraded, because of the reasons that you stated, they arent knowledgable with grading. Unfortunately, some new collectors dont think they have to educate themselves and then they are the first to blame the dealer for ripping them off.