1922-P Peace Dollar - Medium Relief Reverse??

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Is this a 1922-P Peace Dollar from a medium relief die? The obverse doesn't match the medium relief die seen on the NGC coin details page. Specifically, the spike of the tiara on mine extends past the bottom of the "E" in "LIBERTY", as opposed to stopping at the bottom of the "E" like on the known example.

    However, looking at the reverse, the talons of the eagle have very clear features, the "PEACE" and "ONE DOLLAR" have much stronger strikes than on most or all low relief examples I've seen.

    It's as if a low relief die was used for the obverse, but a medium relief reverse die was recycled (intentionally or inadvertently) and used for the business strike.

    All that said, I see some sort of corrosion or environmental damage on the surface of the coin. The "O" in "ONE" from the reverse also looks to be heavily doubled or exhibit extreme die deterioration doubling. Or, are all of these traits conducive to a fake coin? Or, could this be one of those trial die coins that were released into circulation?

    The coin weighs 26.6g (vs. 26.73g as reported by the US Mint) and it's not magnetic (I checked with a neodymium magnet). Standard coin alignment. Cartwheel luster on both sides.

    Thanks in advance!


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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  3. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Bump - does this coin look authentic? Or is something amiss?
     
  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    It looks counterfeit. First thing that jumped out at me was the eagle head and eye and the lettering on the reverse.
     
    Evan8 likes this.
  5. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Maybe the grainy devices is indicative of a cast counterfeit?
     
  6. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    I have to say it looks good, it's just washed out. It looks like someone tried to clean it in acid. That's why the bumpy surface and smoothed-down edges. Authentic but had a rough trip...
     
  7. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Fakey McFakerson.
     
  8. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Im saying it's a cast fake. The reverse lettering is all wrong. Surfaces are very porrus. And Im guessing those spots in the field in front of Liberty's face are raised bumps like chips from a cast. @iPen can you weigh it?
     
  9. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    The coin weighs 26.6g and it's non-magnetic. The reverse letters appear to be doubled, some much more than others. The biggest issue for me is the grainy surface of the devices. I'm wondering if that's due to a cast counterfeit production, or if it's someone trying to clean only the devices since those are the prominent details/features of the coin. If the latter, what would cause such damage? Acid? I've had corrosion damage that looked like this before, but this one has the grainy surface only on the devices, so that's strange.
     
  10. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Oops sorry I guess you said that already.

    Im still leaning towards cast. Can you let the coin slide slowly down your magnet? If it's real silver than it should stick ever so slightly towards the end of a neodyium magnet. Use another silver coin in comparision. But this can only be done with larger magnet if that's what you have.

    Also the chinese have been known to use silver in their fakes as well.
     
  11. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Yes, there's a slight attraction like on a real silver coin example.

    I think that a possible, definitive way of figuring out if it's a fake would be to deductively reason out/in die diagnostics. However, there are so many 1921 dies used, so I believe that the combinations of obverse and reverse dies have a myriad possibilities. Though, maybe there are only certain, say, reverse dies for 1922; in which case, I can compare and match die diagnostics. Not sure.

    Does anyone have a cast counterfeit example? I've seen some online, but it's hard to tell what the porous surface looks like from the examples shown. I'm guessing that the pores would be similar in size to grains of sand.
     
  12. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Maybe look into that line going through IBE at the top of the obverse. It keeps drawing my attention, like it could be a flattened die crack caused from whatever was harshly done to it. Maybe if that is a die crack, it can lead to finding the VAM.
     
  13. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Don't let the surface alone throw you off the presumption it's authentic. That would be a mistake.
     
    Evan8 likes this.
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