Lydian EL trite with "alien metall" inclusion

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by I_v_a_n, Mar 21, 2017.

?

What is the "alien metall"?

  1. Platinum (Pt)

    4 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. Palladium (Pd)

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. Iridium (Ir)

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. Another platinum group metall

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Iron (Fe)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Aluminium (Al)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Lead (Pb)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Tin (Sn)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    I have an example of early type lydian "lion head" trite with realy big "alien metall" inclusion. Big enought to catch it for spectral analizes. This is a real scarce opportunity because this "alien" grains are somewhere in range 0.01-0.1 mm. This one is about 0.5 mm.
    So, I know for shure the metal of this inclusion on the basis of analise.
    Please, trying to guess, and after some time I'll give a correct answer :)

    LT_obverce.jpg LT_reverce.jpg Inclusion.jpg
     
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I'm not sure which it is but I guess you are, since you tested it.

    It is probably easier to rule out some of the metals in your list: aluminum, lead, and tin have melting points significantly below gold and silver (two primary metals in electrum), so you probably wouldn't see discrete lumps of those.

    From your list, that leaves platinum, palladium, iridium, and iron. It's the wrong color for iron.

    Perhaps it could be narrowed further with knowledge of the typical metals found in the area where this coin was made.

    I'm going to take a wild guess and say iridium :D
     
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  4. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I'll follow @TIF's lead and guess platinum from her remaining list. Iridium would be cool since it was the basis of proof for the K/T comet/meteor strike that finally drove the dinosaurs to extinction.
     
    TJC and I_v_a_n like this.
  5. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Platinum or palladium is probably the smart choice since they are known components of much electrum. I don't remember if iridium is commonly found in ancient electrum alloys.
     
    I_v_a_n likes this.
  6. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    @TIF you are amazing! At one step make my list of variants shorter twice :) As you can see my trite the same dies with yours. I do very love this earliest type with 4-rays sun and do not want any other variant.
    I'll post a correct answer tomorrow...
     
    TIF likes this.
  7. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    This is a better photo of trite. Лидийское трите.jpg
     
    Bing, icerain, Mikey Zee and 2 others like this.
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Wow, what a great example! Very good metal.
     
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    If it were metallic aluminum appearing in anything made before the 19th century, it would be really big news...
     
  10. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    it could be iridium, that' is a "alien" metal since it comes from meteors. i guess i'm on TIFS wagon.
     
    TIF likes this.
  11. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    looks like a rock
     
  12. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    . . . thus proving that the decline of the Roman Empire was caused by a comet impact.
     
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  13. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    Here is a better photo under sun light at firm AJ & TIF's style :) Lydian_TRITE.jpg
     
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  14. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    imagescomets.jpg
     
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  15. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Gregarious, you're thinking of the decline in the morals of America's youth.
     
  16. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    civilizations..comets... decline...
     
  17. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    Dear CT Members, so, now the time to give an answer on this puzzle. When I bring it for spectrum analises I have been sure it is a platinum. But the result was completely unexpected for me and for guy who has made analises too.... so..... bam-bam-bam-bam...... this is an iron (Fe). Without any traces of oxidation - this is pure iron. When I come back home I take a books and read that for electrum from nature one of the widespread components - is an iron. For alluvial electrum it is commom to have a traces of tin (of caurce it can not be grain of tin as TIF mention above) and this trite brings a traces of Sn. So, it is without any doubts originates from alluvial electrum from Pactolus (as we all know for shure without spectrum analises). But I was really surprised and first time at life have seen a pure iron without oxidation.
     
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  18. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    But... how? In firm contact with electrum, and exposed to the environment, it should have dissolved away in weeks from galvanic corrosion!
     
    TIF likes this.
  19. I_v_a_n

    I_v_a_n Well-Known Member

    I do not know how... I am not a chemistry specialist... But at analises results this is an iron. They are trying to "shoot" a points near inclusion and there was a usual electrum and only at this point was an iron spectrum jump. So, this is a fact - it is a piece of iron.
     
    Theodosius likes this.
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