Question on survival estimates and those "R" numbers

I follow the Sheldon Rarity scale where R8=1-3 coins, R7=4-12 coins. R6=13-30 coins, R5=31-75 coins, etc.

Here's an 1874-S WB-5 (Obverse 1 with Reverse B), recently graded at PCGS at VF20. It is rated an R7 with only 6 examples currently known since it was described and published by SLH expert, Bill Bugert in 2015. I happen to have seen three of these WB-5s on eBay, all of which were either Fair-2 or a harshly cleaned UNC. This example was found on a dealer's site by a fellow SLH die marriage collector who alerted me to it.


Unfortunately, I sent it to PCGS, and they apparently don't recognize the WB-5 and called it an WB-2 (Obverse 2, Reverse B; rated an R5). Where does PCGS get the right to be arbiters of known die marriages? Their job is to properly identify all known DMs that have been discovered, described and published by experts, and then grade them. In effect, they have polluted both WB-5 and WB-2 with their poor attribution work and not keeping up with new DMs. A perusal of Coin Facts shows that it is filled with their erroneous attributions.

Upon contacting PCGS about this error, they tell me they don't know what DMs are legit, and that I would have the best chance of receiving a proper attribution by submitting a common DMs. That rare DMs are often not recognized by their attributers. WHAT?! They ignore the dozens of DMs that have been described and published since Bill Bugert's registries were published. Those rare DMs are the reason for having them being attributed and labeled in the first place.

Bottom line: If you have rare DMs, DO NOT send them to PCGS because they really don't know what they're doing and they don't care to know. I've even had trouble with them over 1855/54 overdates.

 

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Exceptional display of coins and pride, thanks.

 

Where is the best place? ANACS? VSS? Just curious where you find the Sheldon rarity tables for certain coins? Seems like a tough job finding a source of information without paying a subscription somewhere. Thanks!

 

I've corrected a good number of TPG misattributions. One submission had a couple seated dollars PCGS had attributed. Submitter also wanted my sticker. PCGS got one wrong, and I corrected it on my sticker. A few weeks later, I got the same coin back in a corrected PCGS holder so I could put my sticker back on it.

 

@Barney McRae ,I am not aware of an authoritative, current, comprehensive and free source of rarity data. If you are, I would love to hear of it.

That said, there are many sources of fairly reliable data on several U.S. coin issues that meet some or all of the criteria listed below:

1) Authoritative
2) Comprehensive but only within the series they deal with.
3) Current, some more than others but none so old that they are meaningless.
4) Free and on the internet.

Here's a sampling of resources available.

John Reich Collectors Society Journal - for bust half dimes, dimes, quarters and half dollars. Older issues of the Journal are available for free on the Newman Numismatic Portal. Look for issues that contain the census surveys.

Gerry Fortin's Liberty Seated Dime Attribution Guide - available free at his web site. Contains rarity ratings for every die marriage.

Bill Bugert's Liberty Seated Half Dollar Die Variety books - Everything you'd ever want/need to know including rarity. Available free in PDF at:

http://old.lsccweb.org/BillBugertBooks.php

Twenty Cent coins - Lane Brunner and John Frost book available free at:

http://old.lsccweb.org/BillBugertBooks.php

 

It's a real shame your folks don't also grade. If you can attribute it correctly, you can certainly grade it accurately!

 

Perhaps, but that's not and never has been a goal. I let the grading companies do that. If I wanted to grade coins, I'd go work for them.

 

To this excellent list, I'd add Wiley and Bugert 1993, "The Complete Guide to Liberty Seated Half dollars," which is available on the Newman Numismatic portal, which itself is an incredible library on numismatics.

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/555396

The Newman portal also provides access to past Gobrecht Journal articles on Seated Liberty coins including member surveys.

 

I have one SLH that needs to have the attribution corrected. I don't know if the proper attribution, in this case, 1874 WB-5 SLH, will prompt PCGS into dropping their incorrect WB-2 designation and accepting this die marriage. They accept other DMs with these obverse and reverse dies, what's the problem with a new die pairing involving these dies? PCGS makes my head explode. They're "die marriage deniers." It exploded the past two days and now I've been booted for telling too much truth about the lack of effort put into their ancillary services.

As it stands, my WB-5 is the plate coin for WB-2, so they'll continue to look incompetent. I may have to submit the coin just to have the DM removed from the label for a mechanical error. Perhaps a DM designation from VSS will convince them that WB-5 is legit DM.

 

Worth a shot. You might also print out the 74-S WB-5 addendum sheet and explain that it was a 2015 discovery not in the 2009 book when you send it to them.

 

I did that when I submitted the coin. I also added my unpublished notes on arrow position relative to the date which easily separates the two DMs down to Fair-2. The diagnostic neck and dress lumps BBugert uses to distinguish the two DMS wear away too rapidly. I didn't matter what I did. They don't recognize WB-5 as a valid DM.