Random Coin Show Observation

I went to a coin show today, and this was the first time I interacted with most of the dealers there. It struck me as completely odd and interesting that the rudest/sleaziest dealers were the ones that were completely dependent on TPGs. Is this a thing?

Two main examples:

1. This dealer has an invetory that was 99% made up of certified coins. After asking about a couple coins that seemed misgraded, it became apparent that this dealer viewed graders as some sort of gods unreachable by us mortals except for people like himself. I showed him a few coins I had for opinions (two were in "Details" slabs, of which one was misgraded in my opinion). He then poo-pooed them and started glorifying his own coins and trying to explain why I should buy his over the ones I had. When I asked him about the PL surfaces on my trade dollar (Unc details, Cleaned), he said that since NGC did not designate PL on the holder, the surfaces were not PL (ignoring the fact that the mirrors are 3-5" on both sides). When asked what it was worth, he said that PL surfaces on trade dollars never bring premiums (lie), and that the coin was worth around $225.

2. I showed another dealer my 1807/6 large cent to sell (graded VF details by the forum). He seemed to do a lot of research in grading/pricing/attribution while I looked at his other inventory. When he seemed complete I asked him what he thought of it, and he called it G details. Even after showing him photograde, he still insisted on it being G unless it was certified. This also happened with my local coin dealer, but they had no idea what they were doing.

As is common with all shows I go to, be careful of the raw coins. There are many cleaned coins masquerading as originals (one dealer was explicitly describing his obviously-cleaned coin as an original), EFs as AUs, AUs as UNCs, and whizzed as UNCs. Be careful. If there is a pattern of overgrading, then it might be best to pass.

I apologize for the rant. Sometimes I feel insulted and just need to vent.

 

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You met a guy who has no business being a coin dealer. I know dealers who sell almost exclusively certified coins (because that's what sells), and they don't act in such an unprofessional manner as this guy.

 

Your "proof-like" coin might be that way because of the cleaning.

 

It's not. It is definitely because the dies were polished, and not the coin. The devices still have frost to them, which is hard to maintain with polishing a coin. The hairlines are not immediately obvious.

 

Sleazy dealers definitely exist. I've had run-ins with more than a few. Some have tried to pass off things to me as something else more valuable, assuming that I don't know better. Some assumed that I don't speak other languages than English and tried to take advantage of that. Still others will echo anything I say about a coin, even something intentionally inaccurate (yes, I'm sleazy too), to make a sale. They definitely exist. Selling is the worst, because a sleazy dealer will do just about anything to make maximum profit.

That said, I've met far more decent and honest dealers than slimy and deceptive ones. After going to additional shows you'll start to see the nasty ones at a distance and avoid them outright. In the process you'll meet plenty of excellent, honest and fair dealers. Sadly, sometimes one needs to deal with a few louses to find some gems. I wish things worked otherwise, but, sadly, fate seems to have thrown us into a non-ideal world.

 

once you get a feel for the more reputable dealers stick with them. dealers than are down right rude I pass on completely. if they treat me like crap... then they do not get my business period. I treat most dealers on a positve professional way until they get rude/insulting and then I just walk away.

 

Not you, but some buyers can make a dealer get rude. I've seen some dumb bunnies on both sides of the table.

 

No amount of interest and expertise in numismatics implies the slightest similar ability in retailing or customer service. You have to bring your Happy Face for every_single_customer, and not lose the smile even when you're telling them to go pound sand. Not everybody can keep this up over the course of years, dealing with people who frequently don't care if you make enough money to feed your family. And you have to do it over and over and over and over, treating every customer like it's your first sale. Not for the faint of heart.

Some get jaded over time - not even deliberately - and fall into poor behavior patterns. Chances are they could be your best friend if you removed the veil of the retail transaction scene, but with it in place they're impossible to relate to.

 

If you assume your brain is a turnip, and buy at blue sheet, sell at grey sheet, you can be a coin dealer with no knowledge and less skill. May not make you rich, but you get to show up at coin shows and look important.

 

It's really rare for me to not be able to talk with any dealer in a friendly manner. I let the dealer do most of the talking and don't argue with his opinions. You learn a lot about dealers this way. I'll sometimes ask the dealer what he thinks about a coin he is selling. His answer tells me a lot. It's a friendly way to test the waters.

I was going to ask ToughCOINS this question about a coin at the last Fun Show. He beat me to it. As he pulled the coin out of the case he was already giving me his opinion that it was probably cleaned in the past. I really respect dealers that are up front with honest information. It was still a really pretty coin.

Moving on. I understand dealers that display mostly slabs. They only have so much room and want to show the best they have. I would do the same.

 

I can understand the dealers point of views. If I was set up at a show and someone came up and told me my coins were over graded then presented me details coins they talked up I wouldn't have much patience for that either. If you have a relationship with a dealer and are in their shop yea a lot may be open in those cases but at a show with a brand new one they're just thinking you're not going to be worth the time.

Also though whenever dealers do price coins to their own grading and not slabs they get blasted time and time again in threads on forums. I have no clue who the dealers were but they seemed to have operated how I would expect for a show

 

The coin in question was a 1928 SLQ slabbed MS-63 by PCGS. It had a toning pattern and strike issues that seemed to indicate wear from a distance. When I asked why the coin was graded the way it was, the dealer said that only the best of the best (AKA the graders and himself) were able to see through the toning and see that it was MS, while "novices" like me and the people around his table would not be able to tell the difference. I looked closer at this coin and compared it to other MS SLQs next to it and concluded that the "wear" was due to stike issues. It was an honest question that I wanted to learn from, but the dealer gave a haughty reply and didn't even answer my question.

 

Been there. Some dealers that act that way aren't crooks, they're just dumber than a box of rocks. I once tried and failed to discuss with a dealer that a full LIBERTY on a capped bust half did not mean VF or better, as he claimed. Some AG coins and all G coins have a full LIBERTY. It's the deepest area of the entire coin!

 

I look for dealers that have had the experience over many years. that can grade coins correctly. that point out possible cleaning. the dealers that point out problems on a coin. dealers that have multiples of a coin with the same grade give a discount because they want to sell you their coins. I appreciate dealers that give discounts if you buy so many coins from them. there is no harm asking for a discount. some coins you just know you will pay more for. that's life. you can test dealers, but do it in a nice way. no dealer wants to help a jerk. know what the coins values are of the coins you are hunting for first before you go to a coin show. I have seen some dealers in Vegas tell a guy to leave their table because the customer was so rude and pushy. you learn a lot just by observing what to do and what not to do by watching others.

 

That's the right attitude spirit.

 

People need to remember though dealers do shows to make money. They'd run classes for education if that's what they wanted to do. Shows are not the place to ask for help or an education. They paid to be there and want to make sales not have paid to educate people. People need to remember people come up all the time trying to rip them off. Yes some dealers are complete garbage no one will argue that, it's just people forget make a relationship first if you want to learn from someone

 

BB, WADR, you couldn't be more off the mark..."Shows are not the place to ask for help or an education". I have run a fishing tackle business for 32 years, and I didn't stay in business that long by not answering people's questions. Taking the time with a new customer to explain how a reel works has brought me repeat sales...I see no difference with coin dealers.

 

Fishing rods aren't coins though bud. People aren't looking to rip you off in fishing rods they just want to fish.

 

Oh, you have no idea.