Antony and Cleopatra

Cleopatra VII, (as the commonly termed Cleopatra is rightfully known), is of course one of the most famous persons from ancient history. She was instrumental in the affairs of the Roman Imperatorial period. She had a son by Julius Caesar, and three children from Mark Antony, with whom she sided after the assassination of Caesar against Octavian.

Mark Antony coinage is fairly obtainable, if higher priced due to his renown. Unfortunately, Cleopatra VII coins are not common at all, even less so for portrait pieces of her. I am aware of three duel portrait coins with both her and Antony, with one portrait on each side for each. One is a rare denarius from Alexandria:


Courtesy of CNG. This is a small coin, 18mm, 3.64 grams. This example sold for $4500 plus commission recently.

The second duel portrait is a bronze coin from Chalcis:

Courtesy of CNG. This is slightly larger, 20mm and 6.81 grams. This example sold for $2400 plus commission recently, (somewhat surprising).

The third duel portrait is a tetradrachm from Antioch.

Courtesy of Roma Numismatics. This one is 27mm and 14.2 grams.

Why am I posting this information do you ask? Its because the Antioch piece WAS my "white whale". It is the singular ancient coin I would be willing to write a big check for the last 15 years of collecting. In hand, the coin above is much better than the photograph. Its not pitted at all like it looks, its dark and iridescent toning. The detail in hand is better as well. I have tracked these coins for so long I feel like I could write a book. RPC lists 47 known specimens, but this is patently absurd. My guess would be 300 examples are known.

However, given the popularity of the subject matter and this is the largest portrait Cleopatra extant, it is a very expensive coin. Here is an example that sold for $525 plus commission recently:

Courtesy of CNG.

I have seen worst, (rough outlines of the head), sell for similar. While nothing wrong with that, I have always wanted a higher level of detail. Here is what roughly $20,000 will get you:


Courtesy of CNG.

So of course I like to keep investment funds in investments, not coins, so $20,000 plus was not a great option for me right now. I like my compromise. In hand it is way better than the picture, and I was hoping for that. I have had great luck with bad pictures of iridescently toned coins in the past, and with this piece. Photography is very difficult with such a shiny surface, a fact anyone can try to take advantage of in evaluating coin pics in auction catalogs.

So, what about you? Anyone have a pic of their "white whale" they finally have captured?

 

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It's a great coin. Very few ancient collectors would not want one.

 

I've posted some white whales over the past few weeks. Still have a few to share.

Would love to own a Tet. of the both of them though.

 

I've posted this before, but here's my Cleo & Tony denarius:

 

The only thing I really feel needs to be added here is the fact that these are very popular and expensive coins and that has made them popular among the fakers of our coins. I am not suggesting that any of the ones shown here are questionable but simply that this is not a coin to buy at a flea market. I know a dealer whose expertise is not quite what I would like who was showing a very nice and deceptive fake for which he had paid $1200 been offered $2000 by a collector but something told him it needed to be seen by eyes of more experience than ours. I had told him I did not like the coin. Three out of four dealers at the show old him the same thing. This is a great type. Don't let it drive you into doing something stupid. There are many different fakes of it out there and the somewhat crude style of the real ones makes it a little more dangerous than some issues. If you want one of these, do the research AND then buy it from a reliable source. This is not a coin to do one OR the other. Below is the worst of the fakes. If you looked at it for even a second before knowing that $16 was top dollar, I really suggest you wait a while before buying your Cleo coin. Really!
http://www.antiquanova.com/Marcus-A...-Rome-34-BC-fine-silver-replica-coin-d248.htm

 

Very fair points Doug. Like I said, I have singularly been following these so long that I believe I can recognize most pairs of dies for these, including some of the fake dies.

Definitely not one to try to get a "deal" on. Please only stick with well known, respected dealers. This is a classic coin that if you buy a good piece will simply continue to go up over time, so if you want to own one you have to choose your spot to ride the merry go round.

 

Antony and Cleopatra are definitely up there on my list of coins I'd blow my budget for, and the tetradrachm is an especially interesting type and at least in my mind right up there with Eid Mar in terms of historical interest, but as much as I like these types, both are so far out of my collecting league, at least budget wise, that I don't think I'll ever find an example.

That said, I do have a coin that was my white whale that I captured last year: the "staff" Victoriatus. I posted the story of it in this thread so I won't recap the whole thing here but I'm still kicking myself over the fact that I was able to get one of these and in such excellent style and condition for the type no less.

 

These types are high on my wantlist but I require Cleopatra's full name, decent style, minimal "issues", and preferably one that it is genuine.

These factors have prevented me from finding an example for the last several years, regardless of price. While there are a couple coming up for sale, they fail to unquestionably match all of these requirements.

 

Super congrats @medoraman ! Great find! That has been on my target list also!

Virtually all the coins I target seem to be my "Whale" for the moment, because I enjoy capturing it for the history behind it.

Well done!

 

Gorgeous coin... you are definitely staying on plan to beat out any Museum quality pieces!

 

I envy this coin. Right in my bailiwick of collecting. Well done Sporky!

 

I do not think she looked anything like the Elizabeth Taylor/ Cleopatra VII

 

I think I missed the original thread on your staff victoriatus. (Just read it now, from the link.) Congrats; that's a genuinely rare coin. Yours is quite nice; far better than, for instance, the RBW example.

 

Well, you are in a little different budget area than I sir. While I wanted Cleo's full name, I knew I couldn't insist on a gVF example with everything in good shape and still hit my price point. I had a few more K I could have went for the right coin, but given how I thought this would be better in hand I was ok at the price point and level of detail I got.

Btw thanks @TIF. I didn't want to broadcast the sale to the entire board before it closed, but bounced some ideas off of her.

 

Having just found the sale, I think you did exceptionally well! I've seen worse examples sell for well over double what you paid.

 

Mine is not as important a coin or character, but I did target one of these for several years before finding one. I had to pay a bit more than I wanted, but got it?

A plumb bob on a coin, posted many times here and used after my name on e-mail correspondence.

 

Lol, I think most of us have to pay more than we want to for coins we like. I have learned the sting of the price tag lessens over time, but the sting of not buying what you wanted stays with you longer.

Very interesting device sir, and a spectacular condition coin!

 

Congrats seem to be order @medoraman !!!! It's simply a truly wonderful coin which would be one of my 'white whales' especially since all I have of Cleopatra is a very worn and barely distinguishable bronze.

And I could rave all day about @Volodya' post!!!

My budget makes any lot over 1k a white whale. But, at the moment, I'm after a type I've been drooling over for quite a while. Hopefully, the 'big dogs' will snarl at the other higher grade examples and leave me alone LOL

 

Fantastic coin and story @medoraman !
All those "white whales" are dream coins

Here is mine (story I already told) :

Among the gold coin minted in the principality of Dombes (a county around where I live), which is all from rare to exceedingly rare, a pistole stands out : minted by François II de Montpensier, it was believed to be unique until a second example poped up at an auction in 2006. Of course I could just dream of having it one day and was resigned to having an empty case in my tray for the rest of my life. Actually, my bid was far under the hammer price at that auction. But three miracles later (luck, money, friendship), here it is :


Francois II de Montpensier (1582-1592)
Pistole, or - 1587 - RRRR
+ FRANCIS . P . DOMBAR . D . MONTIS . M . Ecu de Bourbon couronné
+ DNS . ADIVT . ET . REDEM . MEVS . 1587 Croix feuillue
6.30 gr - 28 mm
Ref : Divo Dombes # 64, Mantellier # 37, Poey d'Avant # 5135, Friedberg # 124
Ex collection Couchard # 64 du 27/01/2006

Q

 

That is a great coin, congratulations on getting such a rare piece! I really love French Feudal coins, esp. the AV ones from Bretagne/ Orange/ Dombes/Aquitaine