Oh no!!! Is my Pupienus a cast???

This hobby starts to let me down.

Whenever I manage to buy some really nice looking bronze, sooner or later doubts about it´s authenticity seem to arise.

After I had to send back my beloved Drusus Maior not long ago, now a kind soul pointed out the similarities between my dear Pupienus (seller photo above) and another example (offered in the upcoming Roma Auction), pictured below.

Slightly different flan shape, but matching dies and almost identical weak spots on both sides (including die shift on reverse!).


Auction Fritz Rudolf Künker GmbH, 26.09.2016, Lot 783


ROMA Auction, 23.03.2017, Lot 876 (Minimum 2500 GBP)

What do you think? Is there any hope or shall I tell the seller right away?
Oh how I hate this...

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I think it's just a die match. It happens.

 

Die match. Looks fine to me. And it's an awesome coin too.

 

Is it even a die match? The abacus looks different (maybe that's just wear, but the Roma one looks taller)

 

As has been said. A die match is not unusual. Flan shapes and other details are different which id a good sign that they are not casts.

 

Thank you guys! My stomach feels much better already .
Just how many dies were there for Pupienus´ Sestertii???
Can´t have been too many - also they all seem to share the same style.

 

Die match. Both look great!

 

I'm happy to note all consider it to be a matter of a die match as I would've guessed...'cause it's a fantastic coin!

 

A brief search seems to show up a couple of other obverse die matches. It seems that the beard has two raised strands that wore early in the die. A most attractively executed die too.

Thoughts?

 

That is quite interesting! According to RIC, the Rome mint at this time was organized into six officinae, each striking a different type over a certain period. Also RIC considers LIBERALITAS AVGVSTORVM to be among the earliest issues of the mint and CONCORDIA AVGG among the latest.
Your research however seems to prove RIC wrong! Obviously the same high style obverse die was used first in combination with a CONCORDIA AVGG reverse die (obverse legend still intact), then with PAX PUBLICA ("IMP" starts do disintegrate), and afterwards with one LIBERALITAS AVGVSTORVM die (both obverse and reserve worn down in-between the Roma auction specimen and my coin).
This seems to to indicate that 1) one officinal struck all of Pupienus´ Aes coinage and switched reverse dies, and 2) that the order of reverse types must be reconsidered.

 

Nevertheless I have sent it to David Sear for evaluation anyway and...
he has condemned it as a cast forgery today.

 

J-G, may I ask - did you send David Sear your actual coin for assessment (from FRK), or was his opinion based on pictures?

 

The question now is what you can do to improve not only this situation but future outings. I assume you will notify the seller and spend as much 'encouraging' them to do the right thing as you spent on the coin. I don't buy coins this expensive but, if I did, I would consider either travelling to view the lots in person or bidding through an agent who could see the lots and waive you off at the first sign of a questionable coin. I last used such an agent nearly 20 years ago. Are there still people who do this (for a price)?

No one can declare a coin 'good' from photos. We only can say that nothing shows in the photo that bothers us. It is often possible to say without doubt that a coin is 'bad' seeing only a photo. This is the tragedy of collecting in the age of 100% photographed sales.

 

Bummer man! At least you know.

 

He examined the actual coin.

 

That is definitely a bummer

Did Sears give any specific clue that made him condemn the coin???

Personally, I've given up any pretense of learning to be a 'genuine/forgery authority' and almost totally rely on the expertise of reputable sellers. I hope the seller acknowledges the true status of the coin and generously makes proper restitution.

 

On the positive side, you should have no problem getting your money back.
I can see how something like this can really get you down (or any collector for that matter.)
Please don't let that happen!
Thankfully, there are ways of verifying the authenticity of our coins (this Forum included) such that risks are minimized.
Also, the longer you collect the more experience you gather, the less often this will happen. That has been my experience.

 

Sorry to read that @Julius Germanicus

Q

 

Too bad, it was such a nice coin. I have never really worried about forgeries but I guess it's a significant problem on the very high quality, scarce, and valuable coins. I have never spent that kind of money on a coin, not so far anyway.

 

My main reason for condemning the coin would be that the areas of double striking especially in the letters S and C as well as the O in AVGVSTORM are identical. I can accept a die match, though rare it does happen, but an identical strike.... sorry