Ebay...Still a Cherrypickers Paradise 2017'

Then if it gets a straight grade the second time was the TPG wrong the first or the second time. Should the TPG own up and refund the cost of the first submission since they erred on the first submission? I'm sure what the response would be but just though I'd throw this out.

 

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To me, it means you're a crook, and you're the type of person TPG was designed to thwart. Your attitude is "if I can screw you, that's your fault."

 

But in a way you are holding information from a buyer even though you didn't agree with the TPG. That in itself is an ethics issue.

 

You don't happen to be from Texas?

 

Not sure I get the reference here.

 

Yes. That would be unethical.

 

Not necessarily...it would depend on whether or not the coin belonged in a details slab. Many don't--and just as many if not more straight graded coins belong in detailed slabs.

If it is unethical to sell cracked coins which were wrongly placed in details holders then the corollary must be that it is unethical to sell problem coins which have a straight grade on the slab.

 

Yup, it is if you know. I have a VERY narrow range of ethical behavior. Don't try to slice the bologna thin. Unethical behavior is both obvious and rampant among coin people, even dealers.

 

Ok, then disclosure about the TPG opinion should be stated, before you and the buyer agree that it didn't belong in the details holder.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

If you know that it is a problem coin then yes, you have a responsibility to sell it as a problem coin--still in the slab or not. However, having formerly been in a details slab does not mean it is a problem coin any more than receiving a straight grade means that it isn't a problem coin. It is YOUR responsibility as the seller to make that final determination.

 

Did I say "even dealers"? I meant "especially dealers".

 

Ya know, Kurt, we never agree on politics, but our ethics are the same!! I've found that "right and wrong" is FAR less open to interpretation than the status quo would have everyone believe. Your a good man in my book, bud.

 

Wow you think dealers disclose the previous holders that a coin was in when they sell them be they details or under graded? dealers sell "as is" not "as was". Most of them don't have the connections to buy much from the public so they make their living by adding perceived value. That whole premise would crumble if they disclosed much of anything. It also glosses over the fact that if you get 4 different opinions none may be technically wrong. As to being a crook, if you have a tooled coin and claim it isn't knowing full well it was then that is crooked. If you have a details coin you submitted 7 times and got a gift grade and pass to a retail customer for retail then you are a dealer, if you claim it is PQ and choice then you are offering a self serving opinion that not many would agree with but still a dealer.

 

Either way, you are failing to disclose information which undoubtedly would lower what you could sell the coin for. Sure, you aren't legally obligated to say anything that could impact your bottom line but again, is that ethical? To me if you know something about an item you are selling but keep it quiet to maximize your return then you're not being totally honest.

 

I quess one most define screw, selling someone a coin they want at a price that was mutually agreed upon isn't really screwing someone. If you take the Financial manager role where they are all investments and some are good and some are clearly bad then your line in the sand is closer to being a proper shagging. That said coins are a hobby and not a Financial market and buyers are not promised any retained value. The wise ones can get a return on investment and the fools should take solace in their fun.

 

If a seller truly believes that a coin has no problems then he is not withholding any information to maximize his return. He is selling exactly what he claims to be selling--a raw coin which he personally thinks is problem-free. It is MY responsibility to determine whether or not to trust his opinion--just as it would be my responsibility to determine whether or not

TPG opinions are no longer valid after a coin is cracked out. At that point it is once again simply a raw coin. If you believe that those labels are still in effect then I probably have over 500 coins that I can claim to still be TPG certified even though I cracked them out of their holders.

 

I'm not disagreeing with everything you are saying? What were your reasons for cracking out all of those coins from their slabs? Was it to put them in albums or sell them at what you considered were the correct grades?

 

Neither...I just don't like slabs. I prefer being able to examine my collection raw. As for selling--I MIGHT (not sure, but maybe) have sold 50 coins in over 50 years of collecting. So a dealer--I AIN"T!

 

I find this attitude bizarre. A details grade taints the coin until it straight grades, huh? But we can scream and yell about coins being over or undergraded all day, because they apparently make a lot of mistakes straight grading?

Grading companies miss some percentage of every call they make, whether it's details or straight grade, variety attribution, authenticity, or whatever. Most of the time, PCGS knows better than me, but sometimes not. Why should I disclose a "problem" I know isn't there?