Ebay...Still a Cherrypickers Paradise 2017'

So little love for a EBay seller with a 99.9% positive rating and over 163,000 positive reviews?!?!? Am I detecting the foul whiff of envy?

 

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Or - like me - you could have been watching them since the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when they started building this business on flooded and corroded/cleaned coins, and know exactly what their business model is, since it hasn't changed since.

 

As an active member of the Lincoln Cent Matte Proof Cartel, giving unsolicited information is of course, one of my major pastimes. When offered even the slightest opportunity to regurgitate my matte mania, I cannot resist spewing my proprietary proof knowledge in an impressive manner and quantity. So; to proceed:

A poster here on my...oops, I mean this forum made some reference to a 2nd possible VDB proof die; maybe an obverse, a reverse or even complete die pair that could complicate this case.

(Mighty Mouse Theme suddenly plays)

Here I Come To Save The Day!!

(With emphasis, and deep radio-quality baritone voice)

ACT-U-AL-LY, we know only one die pair was used for the VDB proof. Actual Mint Records studied by Kevin Flynn, research by Albrecht, Breen and Carl Waltz Jr., along with super high quality imaging have definitively shown this to be undisputed truth. FUR-THER-RR, (voice still unbelievably mellifluous) the obverse die continued service with the 1909 non VDB proof issue. The exact same diagnostics are used to ID both the VDB obverse and the 1909 non VDB obverse. It needs to be noted that after a quantity of the 1909 non VDB coins were pressed, a 2nd obverse die was brought into service for the 1909 non VDB proofs. No more VDB proofs were made. In fact, they were disparaged, dismissed and dissed, diabolically damned and put in the corner.

The reverse die for the VDB was retired when that issue stopped production and a new reverse die was used for the 1909 non VDB proof run.

A further piece of controversy surrounds the actual number of VDB proofs that were made and released to the public. Kevin Flynn's study of the mint records indicated 1,194 VDB proofs were made. The number of surviving VDB coins however seems unusually low compared to the mintage number. Anecdotally it has been concluded that a large percentage of the VDB coins were not released and were destroyed, hidden or met some other fate that leaves them unaccounted for.

For years, the number of minted VDB proofs was thought to be 420 coins. This number better matches proportionately with the surviving total, when compared to the other dates and their 'mintage to survival' percentage. This remains a minor mystery in matte proof lore.

The important point of all this comes down to the scarcity of Lincoln matte proofs, especially the VDB and also to a lesser extent, the 1916 and 1915 issues respectively. They actually seem underpriced when one considers their relative scarcity. The fact that they weren't intended for circulation has led to the happy fact that they are generally in an excellent state of preservation. Further, the paper the mint used to wrap them had high Sulphur content. In a significant number of cases, this led to the copper becoming colored, sometimes beautifully so. This toning is considered highly desirable when it is aesthetically attractive through multi-coloration and artistically distributed patterning.

I recommend that collectors grab all their available cash, add their unavailable cash, max out their credit cards and mortgage the house, car and family pets and immediately get out there and buy, buy, buy!! Buy all the matte proofs you can find and hide them deep in your socks drawer. Not only will you be ecstatic at having done this, you too will become a member of the Lincoln Cent Matte Proof Cartel!

Wow! What could be better?!! (Music fades........and.......out)

 

No. I don't like GSC for its reputation of selling problem coins (IMO) without disclosure while representing them as Gem BU++++, etc. Some of the coins might be fine, but I don't care for what I have seen. YMMV.

 

Without an independent grading service backed by a guarantee, raw coins are substantial risks, especially with GS and its track record of not totally honest representation. On ebay sellers can get away with a lot more than other auction formats. Centsles got away with high volume for years with its NNC holders, though I will have to say that GS is better.

 

A sharp lawyer could make a good argument that PCGS has a history of errors like this it claims are "mechanical" when there is no proof of it one way or another. They owe it to its customers to divulge records on this. It's one thing if it was a careless mix-up which is hard to believe with multi-$10K coins, there must be a notification within their system to scrutinize coins in the high dollar figures for accuracy. Especially if the group was sent on an economy invoice. So PCGS gets to operate in the dark with no accountability on their internal practices when they make major mistakes. In a CA court I can definitely see a judge wanting to know what PCGS' records on the coin are. And forget about contract boilerplate that companies try to use to shield them against consumer rights issues. No contract can operate outside state, federal constitutions or the UCC. If a customer wants you to give him a contract shielding them against liability if you do dangerous work for them and end up seriously injured in lieu of insurance a lawyer could circumvent the contract.

 

Well, first, regarding @deefree, given the story of the suspiciously low VDB survival rate makes sense (but the idea of destruction hurts me deeply) PLUS the mention of the gentleman from Lancaster, PA (to me the true MacDaddy of MPL's), I now know who @deefree is and I bow to his superior knowledge. The low survival rate of VDB MPL's has long troubled me, and I would LOVE to see this theory documented. It makes sense, aside from the gratuitous carnage. Maybe the Langbords have a second safe deposit box?

Re GSC, I have a more positive personal experience with them than ANY OTHER ONLINE DEALER. Bar none. I lose about 90% of my bids to last second snipes, but that's life. This is important to this thread: GSC NEVER REPRESENTED THE COIN AS A PROOF! Never once! This is the OP's issue and PCGS'. No one else's.

 

I bought a couple of items from GS a couple of years back. I was just getting back into collecting after a long hiatus. Ironically, I bought 1910 because it looked like it might be a matte proof(!) Well of course it wasn't. It also wasn't "uncirculated" as they claimed. It was a garden variety AU.

I still get their emails everyday just for giggles and because looking at coins and pictures of coins is something I find very enjoyable. The truth is that I find too many of their coins have questionable color. Too often for my taste, there is evidence of cleaning. So, for me with GS it is just window shopping and no buying.

Raw coins can give a good return if you're careful but there's more risk involved and for myself, I prefer to work with a dealer that is trustworthy. Just my single opinion and I firmly believe everyone should proceed within their comfort level. If GS works for you then by all means, do business with them. They offer returns so that does mitigate any big risk. It's all good.

 

All true. I bid on less than 1 out of every 1000 I see from them, and successfully only about 1 time in 30 or so, so I'm quite selective. I have NEVER had a coin grade (all NGC) lower than their description, but have had quite a few grade higher. You have to take personal responsibility for that wheat vs. chaff thing. You have to critically look at the picture and ignore all the plus signs. Maybe looking at a GSC pic is a learned skill.

 

I own a 1913 Type 1 Buff that is a borderline Matte proof looker, and the opinions have run about 50/50. I never knew until CW, Jr. looked at it, and it isn't. This is even though his specialty is MPLs and not MPBs.

It remains a magnificent piece. In both series, quality went into the dumper as the teens turned into the 20's.

 

Yes! You've shared valuable wisdom. I've gradually learned how to read the images of different sellers on eBay and on a good day, sometimes I can tell from a pic who the seller is. Collectors who are active searchers probably learn this as they go. And, true enough as V. Kurt Bellman has said, the more time you spend with a particular seller, your ability to read and 'see through' their images gets more and more refined.

 

My best advice in learning how to look at GSC pictures to find a real nice luster is to look at A LOT of GSC pictures, and judge coins against other similar GSC coins, and not get hung up on any single picture. Side by side the truth comes out.

If it's not better than other GSC coins, back away. No shortage of volume. BTW, lately I get more proofs (Brilliant, not Matte) from GSC than business strikes.

 

Can we get pictures of this coin when it comes back, curious to see your photos and what they gave it.

 

Whats going on here??

 

It very much is, but one which can be learned all the same. Overexpose the coin, increase contrast and saturation in postprocessing, and you have a GSC coin image. Do the reverse in your head, and you have the reality. They're doing far too much volume these days to be able to study every coin they move, and the idea of cherrypicking them is pretty believable. Pro tip: the highest-volume dealers are the best cherrypicking targets.

I generally don't bother with their stuff simply because of their customer base, who too often bid their offerings into Lunar orbit.

 

What I've learned mostly is if you need decent luster there'd better be some nearly black areas on the image. Color bumping won't catch me cuz I don't buy color. For those who do buy color, yeah, maybe GSC isn't your best choice.

 

After winning a GS auction the emails started coming. Nowhere on the emails is there an unsubscribe. I tried replying to the emails, telling them not to send me anymore, but they kept coming. Finally called and talked with a real person who assured me that no more would be sent. But why must someone go to such extremes to get a company to stop?

 

@Larry Pelf
Am I correct that you have already consigned this coin for auction?
Are you going to have it pulled?

 

Where did you see that, Larry?

 

I saw he said he was just going to keep it.