Are CAC stickers useless on MS?

I don't know anything about anything, but here's what it sounds like has been handed to me. "Mr. CAC," I don't know his name, but for all future references in this post that is how I will refer to him. Mr. CAC founded with a group of people either NGC or PCGS first. A TPG to compete with ANACS. It was successful. Then Mr. CAC left and founded NGC or PCGS with another group of people, I don't know which was first or second, but the second company was founded. It, too, was successful. So successful, that it only compared to NGC or PCGS, again, I don't know which was first. At any rate, those 2 companies, both founded in part by Mr. CAC, began to dominate the US coin market. ANACS was called "second tier" to NGC and PCGS. For some reason, Mr. CAC left either NGC or PCGS, whichever was his second company, and formed CAC, to verify the work of NGC and PCGS. His opinion would add weight to his former companies' opinions, but only those companies. Not ANACS, or any second or lower tier company. Did I miss anything?

 

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Oh good grief.......

 

It probably has more to do with which coins are popular with the subgroup that religiously uses CAC. I would imagine more high grade barbers are already nice and snug in old collections- not being churned.

 

@swish wrote: "I don't know anything about anything, but here's what it sounds like has been handed to me." IMO, your own words are key to my frustration with your posts. You asked if you missed anything. I'll answer that. Yes you did - just about everything. See if this helps...

Let's pretend that the owner of CAC who worked at PCGS and left to start another TPGS - NGC, graded EVERY coin at PCGS and EVERY coin at NGC while he was at each service. Now he gets to examine a first generation slab at CAC. The ONLY POSSIBLE variables to this pretend "exercise" are:

1. His personal grading standards MAY have evolved over the passing thirty years.
2. The commercial "market grading" DID CHANGE over the passing thirty years.

One thing that did not change is the condition of the coin in the slab. Easy right?

Anyone dealing, collecting, or professionally grading can have an OPINION on the grade of that coin no matter what their connection to the coin is. TPG's don't have a connection to the coin when they grade it so give me permission for this "exercise" to claim that the owner of CAC did not have a financial interest in the coins he graded at PCGS and NGC. Now he does because he buys CAC coins. I should think that by putting his money "on" his CAC opinion does not make it a worthless product. One thing I will tell you. At least one person (the owner of CAC), who is more knowledgeable about the grades and values of coins than anything you... I'll stop there. Hope this post helps change your thinking.

PS I have talked with the owner of CAC on two occasions trying to get him to accept ANACS, ICG, and SEGS for stickers. He will not - it's complicated.

 

I would agree that could be a factor to some extent. With the major collections that have been hitting the market though some of those did go to CAC so they did see some more of those. As with anything else there are a variety of factors in play. Just like grading though getting the $7,000 approval is at least a little more difficult than the $70 one

 

Not only that, but the notion that we or CAC can tell the difference between A-B-C coins for a particular grade is NONSENSE.....

Why ?

Because the same graders at CAC, TPGs, and the coin community (here) have trouble agreeing on most/many coins within 2 grades !!!

 

Good grief.

 

Just curious, it seems to me that your post is based on when you worked at a TPGS or CAC where you claim the graders disagree on the grades of most/many coins. Then you include the opinions of the "coin community" members here - most who do not have any professional training and don't/have never worked for a TPGS or major multi-million dollar national dealership yet you seem to consider us to be grading "Ex-Perts" to support your post.

For those reasons, I believe your post above is just more which you are certainty entitled to write. It brings humor to a thread and takes up space. Keep up the good work!

 

Umm...no....you read stuff into my post which is totally false.

I have never worked for CAC, a TPG, or anything coin-related and those here who know me will vouch for my background. I wouldn't even consider myself an expert grader, not by a longshot.

I am talking about the numerous articles in which various coins are shown to "experts" who then disagree by up to 2 grades on the coins. Or you can read my link about the FBL Franklin Halfs which increased 1 1/2 grades + FBL and went up like 10-fold in value after being graded by a TPG and also turned down for a higher grade by the original owner.

Happens all the time, I think the vets here will agree with me.

And yes, many of the veterans here are very good at grading, comparable to many of the TPG graders, especially the more junior members.

 

This can't be a serious post

People will lose a lot of money if they buy into what you are selling

 

Huh ? It's my opinion...why would anybody "lose money" because of a post on Internet coin message board ?

You really think that some of the veteran posters here are not in the same league as some of the graders at TPGs ?

 

I think that the grading skills of some of the posters here are exceptional. Especially given the limitations of grading coins from photographs.

What most here never get credit for is their ability to grade a coin "in-hand" which is what the TPGs do, and how any comparison between the TPG graders and the collectors here should be based.

 

insider commented.

Not necessarily true. Coins can and do deteriorate in slabs. I can tell if a TPG graded a coin properly through plastic! Send your coins to me! Anyone who wants my address just PM. I'll sticker generic slabs too. You have to provide the sticker though. And pay for shipping and insurance.

 

All submissions must be by courier, and they have to wait while I decide whether or not to sticker them, and apply your stickers if necessary. This avoids any complications with people accusing me of switching coins, or losing coins. If one gets lost it's on the courier.

 

Excellent observations....just off the top of my head, from helping me with some bids and non-bids, and given their contributions to threads on this site, I would cite MorganDude, CPM9, SuperDave, JPCienkus, and of course, GDJMSP as very good at what they say/do.

Go back to the OP of this thread. When you get down to it, CAC is basically a grade of the graders, a 2nd opinion. John Albanese is a great contributor to this profession and I have tremendous respect for him, but outside of a few coins for a few years when the TPGs were very loose, the notion that you can tell "really good for the grade" from "really bad from the grade" coins WITHIN the same grade rating is really specious, IMO.

That said, yes, I have paid up at times for a CAC sticker just like I pay up to buy slabbed coins as I would very highly unlikely buy an expensive non-graded coin unless I was very sure of the authenticity and grade and was getting it at a huge discount to what I thought that grade was.

 

deleted

 

I believe there was a bit of leg-pulling happening there....

 

I missed his earlier post, deleting mine.

 

No I don't work for CAC, I want to start a free 3rd party service. You provide the sticker, and a courier for transport of your coins, or bring them in person, that way I don't lose from a lawsuit or anything of that sort.

 

I'm not kidding, the sticker has to cover the entre slab except for the spot where the date and grade are located. Sight unseen trading. Why do you need to see the coin? It's authenticated and certified.