Coin shows, your opinion? My first impression from one: grossly overpriced coins

I must agree with Chris...the art of the deal is a fun dance.
One never knows what another will accept unless a offer is made. Also being in the Retail/Wholesale business for over 50 years....yes there's price zones. Where one area pricing is higher or lower than others.
Nothing beats a try....but a failure if ya don't try you truly don't have an argument here.

 

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Well, OK but I dont see that as being 10 times the value. Where can one get a Clodius Albinus for $50, or a Balbinus for $80? You cant, not unless its fake. I have to assume you were seeing ancients in a modern dealers tray, not an ancient dealer.

 

10X was a bit of exaggeration, but my point is if i see Balbinus selling for 150-300 of XF quality -its a good deal, anything above that is a pure speculation .. Again, 3-4 dealers were selling coins 2X-3X-4X times true market value. In my opinion the whole point of Shows is to get a good deal, and NOT go there and overpay, if i want to overpay, i can go to HA.com and use "Buy Now from the seller" option

 

Well, you're not going to find an XF Balbinus for $150! Not likely for $300 either. If truly XF, it will be roughly $400 to well over $1,000 depending on type, centering, etc. Honestly, if you can find them that cheap sell them to me! I have no idea where some people are getting their coins, but they simply dont exist that cheap.

 

Based on his previous comments about NGC grading he's probably talking about what NGC calls XF aka VF or gVF(if you're lucky) in actual ancient coin terms.

 

Show a Balbinus in XF for $300. For that matter, I'll be shocked to see a VF if graded properly.

 

I've only had one coin show experience. The ancients were grossly overpriced (about a 100-300% mark-up. Even after receiving 50% discount on some coins after a lot of hagling, I probably still paid 15-20% more than I would have at an auction or vcoins.

 

agree, but thats the whole fun, of FINDING these values... not just go and blindly buy it of $450, this is available everywhere, no?? the whole fun, is in getting it BELOW market value. its like striking a gold mine.... $450 yes thats the cost of Balbinus, but for this price I can buy it any day i want, right, its just hunt for below market price, thats what is exciting...

 

Totally agree with Sallent, no use for the shows , with Internet,prices are transparent, and plenty of resources available on the web, as well as European sellers of high quality items.

 

Here is a few:

http://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=319423

http://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=258772

http://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=161207

 

None of those coins are what ancient collectors would call XF, the final two even specifically say VF. The NGC one is graded using NGC's wacky grading scale and not the one used by collectors and dealers of ancients. I think this is what has lead to the confusion. I didn't see a single Balbinus coin in actual EF/XF condition(as the term is used by the ancients community) in CNG's archives for $300 or less.

And also the NGC one is almost $400 after buyers fee.

 

OK. What we have here is a disagreement on grading, quality, value, etc. Taking one of your examples:


Sure, this one sold for $350 (7 years ago!), but it has a lot of problems.

Here is a true EF (or XF if you like):



A little weakness in the legends but otherwise what I would call a really nice example. It sold for $1,100, which is entirely appropriate. I would expect this coin to sell average of $1,500.

If one cant see the difference between the two, well, its fine. Beer Goggles and all that.

 

Fair enough, here is a link to AU, sold for $600, based on your pricing Ken, this should cost at least $2K, but it Was sold for $600ish including fees.



https://coins.ha.com/itm/roman-impe...3040-29262.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

I did, $30, Franks Bargain list!


CLODIUS ALBINUS (193 - 195 A.D.)
AR Denarius
O: D CLOD SEPT ALBIN CAES, bare head right.
R: MINER PACIF COS II, helmeted Minerva, standing front, head left, holding olive-branch, resting hand on shield set on the ground, spear against arm.
19mm
3.34g
RIC IV 7; BMCRE 98; RSC 44.

Ex Allan Barker Collection

 

Here is AU example, sold for $600ish including fees.. Plenty of examples like this, just have to look, but to run and buy Balbinus for $450-800 of VF or XF grade is pure madness to me...

https://coins.ha.com/itm/roman-impe...3040-29262.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

Yes, it should have sold that high. Anything can happen in an auction. A coin may go for 10% of its value or 10 times its value. I bet a dealer bought that Heritage example.

Yea, but its not quite the XF grade originally mentioned. Nice coin though, and a good price!

 

hmm, possibly Ken, but this is the whole idea of the auction - a thrill, with coin show, you 100% sure you will overpay, so why waste time, energy and money, if you can sit and wait comfortably by your PC or iPhone, and click the button and get the coin you wanted for a reasonable price...

 

Same as a coin show. One has to hunt to find what you are looking for. Often one has to ask. Did you ask at EVERY table if they had ancients? Some of my best deals were from some dusty ignored box and not on display. I had to ask.

 

You go to coin shows to get experience looking at a lot of coins. Almost certainly if a dealer has three coins you want you will rank them differently in-hand than you would from online photographs. Bargains can be found. But...

I have noticed dealers selling coins they bought -- the day before -- at auction for 2x the hammer price. This must be a convenience charge, or perhaps their guarantee is stronger than the auctioneers, because people buy them.

I have noticed some dealers charge 10 or 25% more for coins currently listed on VCoins by that same dealer. One dealer told me it was because they have to pay for the table. If you remember the Internet price you can often negotiate for it.

Many dealers buy from each other and flip the coin around. As a collector, your job is to find coins from dealers who bought wisely. Try not to fall in love with the inventory of the "tail-end Charlie" who is stuck with coins he can't sell for what he paid.