Riddle me this. A 1986 S proof set retails for $8.00 If you were to remove the coins, and they all graded at PF 65 (raw) they would retail for $21.00. Does this make sense in the world of numismatics? I can't wait to read your opinions. Thanks.
I'm not qualified to answer but that never stopped me before. Grading raw coins is subjective and sometimes contentious depending if you are buying or selling. What is your time worth to argue grades to make $13 even if you could sell them all at the same time?
You make a good point. Buying or selling is always contentious and time is money. However, there is the other side of the coin (pun intended) that an agreed upon graded coin should yield its’ proper value, and proof sets don’t seem to reflect proper values. I mean, here you have a proof set you have had for 60 years that is the quintessential grade and condition being the best the Mint makes and they turn out to be woefully undervalued. I get it. I get it in spades. Something is wonky in Proof Set land…Spark
Modern Proof singles have been terrible buys for as long as I have been a collector, which is now going on 66 years. I don’t know why some collectors pay high prices for Proof singles when the smart buy is the entire set. Don’t be fooled by the individual coin catalog prices. It’s a “roach motel” buy. It’s easy to check in with a high prices, but selling at a commensurate amount is not possible.
No, it doesn't really make sense but you can buy modern sets (especially '86 proof sets) and disassemble them at significant profit. Buyers know this as well so selling the coins requires patience. It is caused by the unwillingness of many collectors to carve up their own sets which ironically sometimes causes high attrition because the packaging isn't stable. Except for a few cullsmost'86 proof coins will grade 65 or higher but be aware that buyers don't want hazed coins and hazing often can't be removed. Once you get through the learning curve you'll find that the profits are not so easy as they seem. But it does make sense to acquiree most modern sets including '86 PR sets when you find them still pristine because the bid price is a fraction of the real value.
@Larry Murphy You must also remember that not many collectors collect proof or mint sets. There are many collectors they only collect certain denominations of coins. Some collectors only collect Lincoln Cents, others Half Dollars. To a cent collector the halves are worth fifty cents. To a half dollar collector, the cents are worth face value. Breaking ip a set to make a profit is not necessarily going to happen.
…and the reverse is true: Proof Set demand suffers due to low values. It’s a vicious cycle. And the only way to change this dynamic (increase demand) is by buying and selling the sets with intrinsically true values, and this is where it gets tricky. How do you establish true values when you are battling 60+ years of historical bias against doing so? It ain’t easy.
maybe some semblances of Schrödinger's Cat here? What is the grading potential of the coins in situ for 65. As long as they're not graded there is the chance they won't grade to a 65? But after grading the question is moot.
Eventually people will figure out that nice attractive looking moderns are really tough and they've been misled by three generations of dealers and inertia. They'll find when they go to look that most of the mint and proof sets have been destroyed and many of the survivors are ruined by tarnish, haze, or spotting. I think collectors had better get off the dime because the general public is buying these sets hand over fist. People don't realize how few survive or how many can be absorbed by the public.
One should also look at the "population" of a 1986, MS65 coin and a 1986, PF 65 coin; which one has the lowest population?
How many proof sets would you have to break up to get one full set at PF65? I'm guessing a dozen or more...
Well, that's what I've always reconned. With all the bloody boobs busting up sets that leaves little to remain in OGP. At some point the worm will turn, but not in my lifetime......
You may well be right but it could have happened at almost any point as long as 40 years ago. It could have happened then and it could happen today for a very simple reason; values in collectibles is far more about demand than supply. Perception plays a far larger role in demand than does metallic composition, age, or any of the factors we associate with "collectible" coins. The nature of people to share beliefs and act in tandem could result in any perceived "scarcity" to give rise not to conservation but rather to sharply increasing demand. Much of the demand for clad isn't specific "I need a 1965 in chBU for my dime collection" but rather I need 10c to keep from breaking a fifty at the grocery store or "I need a nice Gem clad dime for my type collection". Or I need to find more superb Gems for my next submission". This nonspecificity is masking significantly rising demand and draw down of proof and mint sets because now the demand is framed as "I need another 150 1977 proof sets to offer a run of old proof sets to my shop at home viewers.". This demand doesn't directly affect the availability of PR-69 half dollars but it does affect the reservoir of sets available to seek them. Collectors have no idea how few of these sets are left because they don't collect them and destroyed sets are largely invisible unless you know where to look and why they were destroyed. The bottom line is that there is almost no demand for a nice Gem 1968 cent so nobody knows that they are extremely scarce. You can't go out and buy one because most are still hiding among the the very few surviving 1968 mint sets and the predominant carbon spotted examples therein. Registry set collectors don't seek such low grades so all those that have been graded were "accidents"; the submitter expected a higher grade. These "accidents" get little attention or advertising because they are such low value. Until recently Redbook that tends to inflate the values of coins like this listed them at only one dollar. It is increased substantially now but there is still no place to buy one because for every practical purpose (market purpose) they do not exist at all. Many moderns exist in this same Twilight Zone of no supply and no demand. Of all people I sure don't know what can create demand but I do know that these markets might be seen as an exploding pressure cooker if any demand materializes.
The only sets I tapped were state quarter sets, and they thrive abundantly and I have multiples of them. My sixties and seventies remain intact......
