Mary Groat Condition Query

A detecting colleague recently found this lovely looking Mary groat and he would like to know whether it would grade as very fine or even better. It has a small amount of edge damage.

 

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It's going to be a "details" coin because it was dug. Not sure on the grade though.

 

For many GB collectors of hammered coins the formal Grade is irrelevant. Much more important is the overall eye-appeal. That coin has it!
With the later hammered coins, the most important aspect is the quality of the portrait, and that is a beautiful image of Mary.
I hope your friend was not responsible for the scratches on the obverse with over zealous cleaning.

 

I believe that the condition is as found and follows a quick rinse under the tap. I'm amazed that it survived in this condition for hundreds of years with farm machinery going over and knocking it about in the soil on a regular basis. I will pass on your kind comments to him and I'm sure he will be delighted.

 

I grade like an American collector. The sharpness grade is EF, but it’s been cleaned with hairlines, and it has the edge issue. Using American standards for pricing, I’d say net VG.

 

I doubt that the scratches are anything to do with cleaning and more to do with being scrubbed over by earth and stones when ploughing took place.

 

Yes, a good looking coin and as @PaddyB said, eye appeal is as important as grade with English hammered coins. It is amazing that this one survived in such great shape for 460 years. I will share some of my Mary Groat's later, one of which is a detecting find and bent but nevertheless good eye appeal. The barometer of grade on Mary Groat's is the visibility of the pearls around her neck and you can count the ones on your friends coin. Tell him not to clean it any more. I agree with you, it is VF. Here is some trivia to share with your friend. It has a Pomegranate mint mark on both sides which was a rare and exotic fruit at that time and was a subliminal message that Mary was a Catholic.
The pomegranate's prominence in the Tudor court was almost entirely due to its association with royalty, specifically with Catherine of Aragon, Mary I's mother.

Catherine of Aragon's Emblem: The pomegranate was the heraldic emblem of the House of Aragon in Spain. When Catherine married Henry VIII, the pomegranate was combined with the Tudor Rose to symbolise the union of England and Spain. This imagery was everywhere—on clothing, jewellery, tapestries, and in architectural details.
Symbolism of Fertility and Abundance: The fruit, with its many seeds, had a long-standing association with fertility and abundance. This was particularly poignant for Catherine of Aragon, who struggled to produce a male heir for Henry VIII, a struggle that ultimately led to their divorce.
Mary I's Connection: As Catherine's daughter, Mary I continued to use the pomegranate as a symbol of her lineage and her Catholic faith. This is why she used a pomegranate as a mintmark on some of her coins, such as the silver groat, minted between 1553 and 1554. The mintmark was a deliberate and public statement of her heritage and her connection to her mother.

Her mother was Henry VII's first wife and and one of the "survivors" although she died naturally of cancer.
The Pomegranate could not be grown in England and was a complete luxury and exotic fruit so very few people would have seen one never mind taste one.

 

I agree with you and @lordmarcovan , my comment was meant to suggest stop at the quick rinse under the tap. It's surprising so many "shiny" coins are unearthed and I guess its all down to topography and geology.

 

Dafydd, thanks for the background to the pomegranate mark. It would never have crossed my mind that a mintmark could have such religious /political connotations. With regard to coins being shiny or dull when found is interesting. I generally feel that it depends on the type of soil and its chemical constituents. On my favourite field that has produced 36 silver coins dating from 997-1898, the Henry 3rd coins have all been shiny whilst those of Elizabeth 1st have been dull. So I think it may be down to a variety of reasons, including silver quality, ground moisture levels, chemical makeup of the soil and fertiliser distribution. The 1898 shilling is a cracker.

 

Here is the groat in my collection.

 

Very nice coin John.

 

Just in case you hadn't realised, your friend's groat is from Mary's reign before she married Philip of Spain. Your groat is from after that event, as indicated by the different reverse legend as well as mintmark.
Checking my facts in North I notice that groats with the pomegranate mintmark but the POSUI reverse are described as modern forgeries, so beware!

 

These 2 were found fairly close to each other. One is black, the other quite shiny.

 

Beautiful find!

 

Good point and I would be Uber cautious buying one on eBay but as he is a metal detectorist and dug it out of the ground I dare say it is genuine. Mine came from a couple of known collections and auctions.

 

Going back to the comment made by @PaddyB about eye appeal. Here are mine but not with the best of photography but I hope to make a point about eye appeal.

Here are three Mary Groats side by side.


The first one is a detectorist find and was originally bent and quite rippled, probably as a result of plough damage.
The original photograph I bought it from, was quite dark and showed two broad dark shadows so I knew it was bent but it was at a reasonable cost and I liked the portrait.
This is the coin "in hand" which looks better than the flat image.



I thought her face looked quite whimsical. This piqued my curiosity as I was brought up demonising her as the "Bloody Mary" who burnt 280 Protestants alive. I read a number of biographies after buying the coin, including "Mary Tudor, Princess Bastard Queen" by Anna Whitelock and also Linda Porter's book. "The First Queen of England : The Myth of "Bloody Mary". There has been a massive trend to rehabilitate Mary and put her actions in context to the times.
I approach such works with caution because there is so much woke and rewriting of history but in context with other things I have read I accepted the fact that she probably thought she was saving the soul of the nation. She certainly had far less people executed than her Father Henry VIII who executed people on both religious and political or financial grounds.
Of the three coins above I prefer the middle coin which was the least expensive.
The third coin was ex-Leu and I am not sure why I even bid on it. Having the coin in hand it takes me back to demonising Mary and she appears to have the look of a Batman movies villain.
Here is Leu's image.

BRITISH, Tudor. Philip & Mary, 1554-1558. Groat (Silver, 24 mm, 2.07 g, 6 h), Tower (London) mint, no date (1554-1558). PHILIP•Z•MARIA•D:G•REX•Z•REGI Crowend and draped bust of Mary to left. Rev. POSVI - MVS•DE - VM•ADIV - TO•NOS Coat of arms over long cross fourchée. North 1973. SCBC 2508. Beautifully toned. Minor areas of weakness and some scratches on the obverse, otherwise, very fine.

From the collection of the American Mathematician and member of the Rhode Island House of Representatives Rodney David Driver (1932-2022), privately acquired from Spink in August 1969.

Suggest to your friend that he does more that look up Mary on Wickipedia but read a couple of books, it will bring the coin alive for him.

 

If we are sharing, here is my example. Not as good as the OP I would say, but the best that has come my way so far: