Weird pawn shop experience

Frankly I wouldn't like my purchases becoming public record. Would you like to be known by the general public as the guy that purchases expensive coins? Might as well draw a target on your back.

 

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Wait, what?

First, he specifically said the buyer started getting calls from the person who defaulted on the loan for the tools. Now, while the rates charged by a pawn shop might have some ethical similarity with theft, they aren't legally theft.

Second, if you're patronizing pawn shops, you're already "part of the commerce chain for stolen merchandise" -- because I don't think even the pawn shop operators themselves would deny that a great deal of stolen merchandise makes its way through their stores. When presented with evidence, they'll cooperate to make it right, but they don't (and never will) require proof of legal ownership before they buy something.

Third, as @Joe2007 pointed out, giving this information to the pawn shop actually put the buyer at increased risk. It's not about ease of buying; it's risk of becoming a target for violent crime, at least in this case.

My takeaway from all this is that there are definitely pawn shops I won't consider dealing with, and I'm not terribly motivated to go looking for ones I can deal with. Well, maybe for musical instruments -- they seem to be a critical part of the musicians' economy...

 

That's not what he said. Wow.

 

There are way to anonymize yourself when making purchases- personal buyers, dummy corporations, etc. Buying expensive coins yourself from pawn shops, auctions and online sellers is probably not the best way to go about it.

How did OP even get into the transaction? That story should have been over when he saw the lady mishandling the coin. If she treats it like that right in front of the customer, they are probably playing hot potato with gold pieces when no one is around. How did you not walk away after the coin was dropped and laughed off? You were still willing to make the purchase?

 

That's what the holding period for merchandise they take in is for.

 

The logic is clear. The only reason for strict controls on pawn shop operations is to impose a system in which fencing stolen merchandise - which requires a buyer as well as a seller - is unattractive to those who would willingly participate in it. The refusal to use such a system carries the implicit endorsement of a system where buyers and sellers do not have to identify themselves. The poster makes himself look like someone who would prefer under-the-table transactions by generalizing that he won't do business if an ID is required to do so, meaning he prefers a system where criminals can operate more easily.

In the specific case of the story behind his post, the pawn shop in question should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, which hopefully meant being shut down and jail time for whomever disclosed the personal information. That's an act even worse than receiving stolen property.

 

By precisely the same reasoning, anybody dealing on Craigslist (or, for historical verisimilitude, the classified-ads section) is choosing to facilitate and endorse criminal activity.

 

What's the logic in forcing a buyer to provide ID?

I've never had to here in Cali.

 

Yes. I wish we didn't live in such a world, but we do. Note that I haven't proposed a solution; there isn't one which doesn't infringe on civil liberties to too great an extent.

Anyways, Craigslist and the Classifieds don't provide the opportunity for a fence to achieve control of the environment and transaction volume that pawn shops do, therefore involving much greater risk of entrapment to the miscreant, be they buyer or seller.

 

Wouldn't you have to say the same thing about anyone who conducts any transaction without full tracking?

I can't help thinking we're pretty much in agreement on this; I'm just puzzled why you seem to be arguing so energetically in favor of pawn shops Tracking Everything, when, as you say, civil liberties are at risk.

I'm not a big fan of slippery-slope argumentation, but I have a hard time keeping my footing on this problem -- it seems like any approach quickly leaves me flat on my butt in a puddle of Ban All Cash Transactions.

 

I knew there was a reason why I'd rather have my toenails pulled out with pliers rather than to try to deal with a pawn shop. Every experience I've had with them made me want to go home and take a shower.

 

I'm a fan because that system is time-proven to be the method of choice for moving stolen merchandise because it lends itself to both transacting stolen goods cleanly and laundering the money. The other systems which can be umbrella'd under my argument have fatal flaws to the bad guys, and therefore likely aren't in need of stricter control. We have to contemplate the definition of "civil liberty" in the greater context of society's need for a safe environment, which means that by definition any discussion is going to be pretty slippery.

 

The state where I reside does not require pawn shops to collect information on people purchasing their merchandise. I certainly do not advocate for under-the-table transactions for those that are selling which would be illegal. Generally I support pawn shop regulations when they are within reason. Stop trying to twist my words.

The personal anecdote I mentioned in my post earlier in this thread unfortunately happens more often then you would think . Sometimes its the pawn shop employee that give out the buyers info, other times it is someone with access to the online database that law enforcement uses that leaks the info.

 

I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether I've twisted your words, or you've failed to think through their implications.

 

...and... fwiw, If this pawn-shop is now a franchise of a larger chain, the rules they must abide by are probably written by their corporate overseer in a manner to comply with the state with the strictest rules.

 

You did twist his words. You failed to understand what he said.

 

I once bought a storage unit of a closed medical marijuana despinsary in Palm Springs. Got a lot of glass pipes and bongs and such but there was also a filing cabinet with hard copies of all the patients info and ID copies etc. Luckily I was the one who bought it because a lot of damage could have been done if that filing cabinet got into the wrong hands. That information could have been used so easily to get lines of credit or to sell outright for thousands to identity thiefs. I have an industrial shredder in my office for such things and spent practically an entire day shredding everything.

 

Correct. Small shops don't have that worry. They just have to comply with state and city laws.

In my state, as a buyer. You only need ID if it's a gun or a cash purchase of 10K or more. Stores of all types may ask to just see your ID on large CC purchases. They don't record the information, they just want to know that you own the card. Lowe's ask me for ID all the time when I'm using their card on a large purchase. I'm glad they do this.

In my state, as a seller. You need ID and the shops will have you sign a declaration of ownership. A false declaration is a felony on it's own. If the goods come back as stolen when the pawn ticket gets filed, that's a second felony. It works really well.

A lot of folks don't really understand the workings of pawn shops. Sure, some bad guys try to use them but a lot of good folks use them. Some use them almost like a bank or a quick loan place. There are those that will pawn the same item over and over again when they need money. Some will pawn something and keep renewing the loan, over and over, only paying the crazy interest rate. The interest rate is regulated by the state laws but it's large. There are many Pawn shops that are ran by ex law enforcement officers that just love to help bust the bad guys. It's a crazy business.

 

I was at a storage unit auction once. The caller was selling a unit and opened a drawer of a dresser. It was full of bags of green stuff. They moved on to the next unit. Always wondered how that all worked out.

 

Most of the pawn shops I have bought from ask for ID on purchases $25.00 and over. I only use cash. Some mom and pop shops don't ask for ID on purchases. I won't buy gold coins from pawn shops, because, I have yet to find one that doesn't nick the coin to test for gold.

Most pawn shops don't even buy or sell coins. They don't have the personnel with experience in coins. The ones that do have coins are definitely buyer beware. I would also throw out a cautionary word to make sure the pawn shop has a return policy. Make sure you understand their return policy.