Holy .... NGC just took PCGS behind the woodshed!

@baseball21 you can believe whatever you want. But sorry economically it doesn't make any sense for a dealer to buy a coin for x amount, then spend even more to have reholdered. Unless via gradeflation the regrade adds value not only above the net acquisition cost including the fee's for regrading but also enhances their profit as the result. Collectors maybe, but dealers at least those whose businesses are going to survive aren't going to waste money doing this unless it adds value. Do some coins come out as losses, sure but the overall wins must have been great enough to drive the entire crack out game process. If it didn't it would quickly stop as continued losses mean going out of business.

And sure a small margin of coins get cracked out for other reasons absolutely, but I bet it's less than a few % total. Where are all the millions of coins slabbed for the last 30 years at then if they didn't get reholdered over and over as grading standards loosened to what was market acceptable. Market acceptability driven by the TPG's who are in the business to make a profit not preserve the purity of Numismatic grading standards. I will agree with your point on not every older holder upgrading though. That ship has largely sailed as it's mostly dogs left in older holders at this point besides those that have been held in long term collections which come to market infrequently.

 

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Unfortunately, for both of them these days that seems to mean partly "What the actual **** were they thinking? " and partly "Oooooh, I'm gonna make me some money on this "

 

Why do you think dealers have been the driving force of reholders? And actually there are many instances where it would, beat up slabs they want to CAC knowing they would be rejected for not getting a good look. If the big boys were the driving reholder force, their rate are not what you or I would pay for the reholder.

Dealer's aren't also grading gods. Some are better than others but there isn't a single one that has been 100 percent on crack outs.

This is where I believe you are wrong. A significant percentage were for reasons other than upgrading. But even if they were for upgrading it didn't mean they succeeded. You also forget the whole 5 dollar reholder special PCGS ran with the much clearer newer plastic. Yes some did upgrade, but by no means did the majority of them.

I really don't buy into this who romanticizing the past grading thing. Maybe it was more technical back then and eye appeal was less of a factor, I for one am happy for the change if that is the case.

 

Totally agree with this, but I am wondering what you (or anyone else) would accept as data rather than cherry picked anecdotes. Would it take an independent, third party study? Who would pay for that?

 

Interesting read. However, I wonder how much of the population increase is victim of the "crack out" game. Considering majority of CAC stickers are on PCGS slabs makes you wonder as well. Is CAC cosigning the under grade? Either way it will be fun to follow this!

 

But if you're in the collecting aspect of things, ya don't give a hoot. And as for the heirs after the fact? They won't know better and ignorance is bliss....

 

This. Populations have been artificially inflated for years in grades right below a massive jump. PCGS ones bring more money so they get victimized the most

 

There are issues where it wouldn't be surprising if half or more of the "population" are crackouts.

 

CAC is the independent 3rd party study and far more PCGS slabs get stickered than NGC on an epic scale. Something like 5 to 1 from a recent eBay study

 

Yes, that is the only definitive way to resolve the question.

That is indeed the $64,000 question. Or should I say the $640,000 question...

~ Mark

 

Could not agree more. It's a very informal test but one of my tests has always been population says this okay how easy can I find it. If the population says maybe a couple should be out there and I am struggling I know resubmits which I would have suspected anyway from the price jump

 

Second time in the last few weeks Mark Salzberg has taken swings at PCGS. Should be interesting.

 

CAC is a dealer. That puts me off a bit. To me, they're just as inconsistent as the TPG's

 

How would ebay study that?

 

IMO PCGS is losing as many customers to their lousy customer service as to their inconsistent grading.

 

You're a dealer too which means your opinion can't count either

 

Well, I care to the extent that it affects the prices of nice coins I want to own!

Who says the population of coins on eBay is representative of the population of all PCGS and NGC coins?

 

I don't understand what you mean. I didn't say CAC's opinion doesn't count. My comment is about their inconsistencies in stickering.

 

You said them being a dealer puts you off a bit. So everyone should know you are a dealer as well who from your threads seems to use NGC the most which gives you a financial interest in the outcome of the debate

 

You're acting like a child again...
What I mean is this: Someone who is a dealer (makes money dealing in coins), decides which coins "pass." There are no checks and balances. That's my point. For example, I've often wondered what's to stop him from rejecting coins that Heritage sends him, then buying them from Heritage, getting them reslabbed, then stickering them green or gold and making money like that? I don't think it's happened, but I worry about dealers being in that business. David Hall is another. He's a dealer, and owner of PCGS. Are there enough checks and balances in place there to keep it honest? I don't know.... but I wonder and worry sometimes.