Holed Ancients - Round Holes vs. Square Holes?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by jggonzalez99, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. jggonzalez99

    jggonzalez99 Member

    I just picked up this holed Augustus denarius. Naturally, it got me interested in holed ancients. It was pointed out to me that most ancient nails were square, not round, so a round hole must mean the hole is relatively recent. I know there are exceptions, but most handmade nails are made from square stock because it's quicker. When I look at holed ancients, the majority I've seen have round holes. Does that mean all the stories about pierced coins used as charms, votive offerings, etc are just wishful thinking?

    2016-11-21 19.03.22.jpg

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  3. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I assume that nails were designed to go through wood. If you are trying to bore a hole through metal, you want a round point so that the force is more evenly distributed.
     
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  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I've heard the same @jggonzalez99. So you have to wonder about the perfectly round holes. Here is one with a squarish hole:
    Quintillus 1.jpg
    QUINTILLUS
    Antoninianus
    OBVERSE: IMP CM AVR CL QVINTILLVS AVG, radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right
    REVERSE: PAX AVGVSTI, Pax standing left, holding olive branch and transverse sceptre, A in left field
    Struck at Rome, 270 AD
    2.2g, 20mm
    RIC 26

    And one with a round hole
    OTACILIA SEVERA 2.jpg
    OTACILIA SEVERA
    Æ Sestertius
    OBVERSE: MARCIA OTACILIA SEVERA AVG, diademed and draped bust right
    REVERSE: SAECVLARES AVGG, SC in ex, Hippopotamus standing right, head raised
    Struck at Rome, 248 AD
    18.6g, 30mm
    RIC 200a, Cohen 65
    ex Warren Esty

    Something of note between the two holes. The square hole has no buildup on one side of the hole, while the round hole does. Not sure, but the build up may indicate circular pressure pushing the metal out as say a drill bit forces it way out the opposite side.
     
  5. jggonzalez99

    jggonzalez99 Member

    Yes, but I'm thinking more about what is easier to manufacture by hand. All of the references I see refer to square bar stock being used for nails.

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  6. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Good question. I've been wondering the same thing...Yet 'Damned' bad silver fourrees alway seem to have a round hole as well. I hope someone can clarify this a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    If you pound a square nail in, you can get square hole.

    If you twist, rotate, or drill a square peg, you will get a round hole.
     
  8. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    The mistake made here is assuming these holes were made using a nail (which most were not). The Romans made good use of such tools as augers, awls, drills, etc.
     
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    My only Holed coin, and my last coin purchased in 2016, and my first coin received for 2017 (from @Valentinian ):

    upload_2017-1-10_9-23-34.png
    RImp
    Spain
    AE 30mm, 14.2g; struck 44-36 BCE
    Lepida-Clesa Lepidus
    moneyer C Balbus L Porcius
    Colonia Victrix Ivlia Lepida (VIL)
    Victory
    Bull
    holed (via drill)
    RPI 262 plate 19.JPG
    Ex: Warren Esty
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  10. NormW

    NormW Student Of Coinology

    As a hobbyist black smith for 25 years, I can tell you that nails were typically square, not necessarily because the raw metal started square, but because the smith hammering out the nails made it square out of expedience, while hammering. Now punches are typically round ( and yes jggonzalez'99's coin was punched, not drilled. That's why there is an indent on one side and a bump on the other) because square punches can cause weird stress problems in metal when they are used on cold metal (hot punching is another topic). Square punches are also more likely to get stuck in the metal they are punching.

    Bing's Quintillus coin is another story. That jagged hole was not likely done with a normal tool Either drill or punch. It looks like it may have been some unusual blow. Maybe it stopped an arrow point while in some ones pocket.

    Bing's OTACILIA SEVERA was a neater job. The punch was used on both sides to even out the indenting and to make a cleaner hole. But the excess material on both sides shows that it was punched and not drilled.

    Allegandron's coin was most likely drilled.

    In general punches were commonly used, because it was quicker and easier than drilling for most people, prior to the late 1800's/early 1900's. I can make a punch in a campfire, using a rock for an anvil, if need be. Making a drill is a serious project.
     
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  11. ab initio

    ab initio Well-Known Member

    I have a small collection of Greek (Classical and Hellenistic) silver, formed over the last half century, composed of "pierced" coins. They demonstrate a variety of piercings, from the very rough and forceful random type to the very fine and "well thought out" piercing that considers the position of the obverse head type relative to the hole. That has led me to think that piercings were carried out not necessarily at the same period when the coins circulated but in many cases much later. One of my favorites used to be a large late Classical bronze of Tegea on the Peloponnesos that had a very big hole right in the middle of it, on the head of Athena. It is a very rare coin and it was sold with all my other Peloponnesian material a few years ago. I still believe it was nailed to the temple of Athena at Tegea which we know was wooden.
     
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  12. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    My only holed coin:

    1600207.jpg

    Caracalla, 198 – 217 AD
    Æ28, Caria, Alabanda. 9.10 grams
    Obverse: AV K M - ANTWNINOC, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    Reverse: ALABANDEWN, Tied laurel branches.

    References:
    SNGCopenhagen 15
    SNG Von Aulock 2401

    Provenance:
    CNG Electronic Auctions 160, lot 207, $59
     
  13. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I only have one holed coin. A rare denarius of Commodus from Alexandria.

    Commodus denarius
    Obv:– M COMM ANTO - N AVG PIVS BRIT, Laureate head right
    Rev:- LIR AVG R M TR P - XVII COS VII P P, Libertas standing left folding pileus and sceptre
    Minted in Alexandria. A.D. 192
    Reference:– BMCRE -. RIC -. RSC -.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I found this one on acsearch... LHS Auction 96.

    BCD Tegea 296917.jpg

    Is this the coin you're referring to? If so, very interesting!
     
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  15. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Great info... thanks!

    I have two holed coins, both of which I like very much. A drachm of Abdera and a hefty Claudius sestertius.

    upload_2017-1-12_18-8-41.png

    upload_2017-1-12_18-8-52.png
     
  16. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Here's one I've wondered about for a while. It's an as of Germanicus that's holed on one side, with a slight bump on the other. Unfortunately, I no longer own this coin, so I can't send a better picture: Germanicus4.jpg
    Do you think someone started drilling and just gave up halfway through, or is there a better explanation?
     
  17. ab initio

    ab initio Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is! (I envy your ability to transfer photos from different places into this discussion). The legend is ΑΘΑΝΑΣ ΑΛΕΑΣ and the temple was of Athena Alea. The archaic version of the name of Athena points to earlier times when temples, or at least their doors, were wooden. The statues inside were also wooden "xoana" (plural for xoanon).
     
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  18. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    That's an odd one. The side with the raised metal is always the exit hole, not the entry. I would assume that the other side is just filled with earth and hardened.
     
  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    What tool made this one? :angelic:
    gi1040b02224alg.jpg
     
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  20. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Here is my sweet new A-Pius

    => holed in antiquity ...


    Antoninus Pius AE Diobol Bull.jpg
     
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  21. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I suppose I might as well add this 'holed' fourree of Domitia---'damned' for bad silver is the usual explanation....

    domitis fourree denarius.jpg
     
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