Like CBD, I don't refer to them as counterfeit either. I prefer "copy" as that's exactly what he's doing - copying the designs, not by the talent in his own hands (as your hobo nickel example), but uses modern technology to do so. However, and particularly in the case of fantasy pieces, if a convenient choice of planchet material is all that separates the "art" from the frauds, what does that really tell you? Isn't it odd that the only way a copy can be an acceptable "fantasy" piece is if it exactly fits what Carr is doing, and any that do not are worthy of both Mr. Carr's and his fan's outright contempt? Do you not find it at least highly questionable that he claims the "date" as his "signature" yet turns around and says he claims no ownership of said dates? What would you think if you learned that Mr. Carr himself publicly stated his belief that another producer's dies are illegal based upon the very same code he immediately dismisses when applied to his? I realize you're new to these discussions, but there are plenty of perfectly legitimate questions, both morally and legally, that one must answer for themselves. If you view them as "art", I certainly respect that even if I personally disagree.
It's the very definition of hypocrisy, but no reason to let facts or reality get in the way of a good brown-nosing... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite
The target audience is not the "uninitiated". This isn't like a state quarter with a sticker being sold on TV to people that otherwise have no interest in coins. This is something you will find in places like the coins category on ebay, where you can reasonably expect to find the vast majority of buyers to be experienced with coins Edit: added cheekiness
And be that as it may the laws are designed to protect the lay persons who have no specialized knowledge and the idiots not the well informed niche with specialized knowledge. Whether or not people feel they should be responsible for educating and protecting themselves is immaterial to the protections provided to them by law. The law doesn't care that a numismatist would recognize a Carr coin and likely have that be the end of it. The law cares that Joe Smoe isn't going to recognize it and if he obtains one in some round about way and then peddles it to Steve Smoe at an exorbitant price because Steve's an idiot also. Or worse perhaps Joe uses it to pay for his smokes at 7-11. The hope is that marking requirements solve that when the Smoe's see the copy stamp, but we've even seen on this forum people post asking about replicas with copy stamps thinking they are the real thing. And anyone whose seen that occur, yet can't imagine it occurring with an unmarked 'imitation numismatic item' in the same fashion is beyond me.
Did I mention that I am venturing into the Ancient world, The ones I want are counterfeited regularly, I hope that I can say that each and everyone of You have my back. Well unless I forgot how to use my chopsticks, Then I would be as old as Doug.
Your pragmatic example makes sense. I'm not so sure if the law really does care for joe shmoe, but I also don't know jack squat about the law
Thank you Jason for the assist in ending the auction for the fake 1885-CC Morgan. After contacting the seller they agreed that it appeared to be a fake and cancelled all bids. Can we all agree that this type of activity is far more beneficial than what this thread and many like it have digressed into?
Counterfeit ancients are a breed of their own. But, uh, if they were found doing it they'd be executed. Wonder what DC thinks of that? But then again, if an Emperor didn't like the image on the coin depicting him.... uh oh.
Glad to see the seller did the right thing, and good on you for finding it btw. But this thread has valid points that are being unfairly dismissed and tuned out by the collective fandom with their fingers in their ears, and THOSE digressions are exceedingly valuable.
As I said Neaah sayers, Yeah, I appreciated your opinion. Its up to you from here once it passes my cerebral cortex.
Yeah and who wants to bet that this will hit 50 pages again? No even better, the entire site is and anyone else who reads the same repeating comments for 27 pages in a row in a thread that should've never got to this point.
That's nice to know. Next time someone dogs a Chinese "fantasy" counterfeit here, I'll be sure to point out that it is merely exonumia.
It depends. Non-fraudulent alteration is legal so as long as it doesn't run afoul of any other statutes or duly enacted administrative regulations. This is the point of contention in all of these threads. Does it run afoul of the Hobby Protection Act (which expressly contemplates altered coins within its definitions) and the counterfeiting statutes? When does it become counterfeiting? When counterfeit (unauthorized private) dies are used to impart new designs, mottos, and other inscriptions in the resemblance or similitude to U.S. coins, as defined in the cited statutes, it crosses the line.
It is being ignored because it is nothing more than an attempted diversion to focus attention away from Carr. Start another thread on the 1885 cc.
Only to see just how big of fools you and @Cc2012 are making yourselves appear. Now a combined 77 pages to be exact.... oh how so proud you should be.
