Postumus and Liberty

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I have collected barbarous radiates (from the Gallo-Roman empire c. 270 AD and found commonly in Britain) for decades. Here is a coin I got in 1991 that looks pretty close to official:
    BRcoll1991n15o.jpg BRcoll1991n15r.jpg

    19 mm.
    IMP C POSTVMVS PF AVG [in slightly irregular letters]
    LIBERTAS [clear] PVBLICA [unclear, but likely]
    Liberty standing with pileus (cap of liberty) and scepter.

    What is interesting is both the (relatively) good style and reverse type. RIC lists LIBERTAS AVG as very rare, but lists no other LIBERTAS ... reverses for Postumus and The Cunetio Treasure has none at all.

    So, the options are that I have an "unlisted" official type with somewhat irregular workmanship for Postumus, a type which could be interpreted as advertising his revolt as being in favor of liberty (from the oppressive central empire), or might be an remarkably good style imitation that does not imitate a known reverse, which would be very unusual.

    I solicit your thoughts.
     
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  3. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    My instinctive thought was irregular portrait in style very close to official and reverse that looks as good as official for mid 3rd century. Interestingly this example from a recent sale looks like it's from the same dies as yours?
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3259092
    Interesting piece!
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  4. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I believe you are right! I didn't think to look at acsearch. Thank you very much for the link. I use acsearch a lot, but would not expect to find such low-value coins on it. Or, maybe it is not as low value as I thought!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  5. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I now remember that auction from September. It had a dedicated category with two hundred Postumus coins, some extremely rare and interesting. It seems there was a section on irregular Gallic mint issues of the period as well, which I must have just glossed over at the time. If you missed it, it's definitely worth a look:
    https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2891
     
    David Atherton, TIF and Paul M. like this.
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Thanks for that great link! It shows some amazing results from 40 euro estimates that failed to sell to things in five digits that I have never seen before. It does have one bad effect in that you have to realize how pointless it is to try for a complete set of these 'common' coins let alone the rarities. Of course that is the situation with all ancients but this group really rubs salt in the wound.
     
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  7. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I'm resigned to being a generalist, so completing ruler sets is something I never even consider. Looking at collections like this one rubs salt into a different kind of wound for me, but as collectors we make our choices and try to live with them :happy:. Anyway, there were some coins in that auction I would have REALLY loved to have had.
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Yes, I would love to have just one Postumus with double bust obverse or even a lion and club version. I don't require a bag full of them like we saw here. I am not a Postumus specialist which means I have fewer of his than I have of Septimius Severus but I bought more of his in the last few years than most categories. Perhaps there is an intermediate category which requires a term like "weighted generalist" which allows purchasing any coin you like without being totally random or feeling you need to buy something simply because you don't have one. I wonder if we ran a list of specialties possible within the bounds of ancient coins just how many we could discover. Obviously some overlap. I do not collect Septimius Severus so much as I collect Eastern mints of Septimius Severus. Some of our number collect 12 Caesars while others seek Flavians or Domitian or Branch mints of Flavians or Judaea Capta coins or.....
     
  9. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I only dabble with Postumus. I pick up his coinage very rarely and then only when I spot something unusual.

    I picked this coin up last year which is a scarcer reverse type for Postumus:-
    [​IMG]
    The nicer example in the above sale sold for about 20 times what I paid for this example. I doubt that it will stay in my collection for long as I have no real interest in it.
     
  10. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    That sale of Postumus coins is amazing. (Here is the link again.)
    https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2891
    Lot 526 looks like it could be found in a junk box and went for 4400 euros!
    May of those coins are obviously very special, but I think they were made even more special by putting them in the company of other special coins from what might be the finest collection of them. Would the prices realized have been so high if the coins had been offered individually elsewhere?
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Certainly not. A sale like that would be previewed by specialists with money and museums with patrons. The bargains were lower grade commons which still were decent coins.
     
  12. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    When that Postumus speciality sale posted I browsed the lots and was astonished by the huge variety of coins. I had no idea Postumus had so many interesting coins! I watched lot 538 because I have one like it and I wanted to keep track of comps and value. Lot 528 is nicer, but mine is a pretty good find from a mixed lot. As Doug said though-- for mine to realize such a top price it would need to be in a sale sure to be browsed by specialist collectors.

    Paul-Francis Jacquier Numismatique Antique, Auction 42 lot 538; est. 500 EUR, realized 800 EUR:
    [​IMG]
    Mine:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Here is proof details can make a big difference. Do you have a Postumus SERAPI COMITI AVG? I do. But, look at this one first:

    2417552l.jpg
    Jacquier sale 42, lot 540: Estimate 1000 euros, PR 4600 euros (+ fee)!
    Wow!

    Now look at their next lot with the same reverse legend and almost the same type:

    2417553l.jpg

    Jacquier sale 42, lot 541: Estimate 85 euros. PR 85 euros.
    This one is not as nice as the previous one, but that can not explain all the difference in price. The lot description of the previous coin says
    "The reverse is taken from the coinage of the Caracalla; this very rare variant with the vertical scepter is the prototype of the following type Cunetio 2421. This coin is from another stamp [die] than the 6 otherwise known copies."

    More than 4000 euros extra for a vertical scepter? That seems a bit much to me.

    Here is my example:
    Postumus8315o70.JPG Postumus8315r70.JPG

    I'm sorry to say my scepter is not vertical.
     
    randygeki, dlhill132, Bing and 3 others like this.
  14. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    So, is the verticle sceptre type assigned a different catalogue number from the slanted one? It seems such a minor detail to pay such a hefty price!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  15. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Proof that there are some seriously well-heeled people very serious about the coinage of Postumus. TIF's is a good example of a minor variant (Providentia's globe on the floor rather than in the hand) being able to command at least 10x as much as the common variety. The hammer for the SERAPI COMITI was still very eye-opening. The question may be what happens to the realized price of the specimen that goes on sale after all the Postumus specialists who want one have already acquired their own example.

    My Providentia and Serapis examples are the common ones too. *snap*

    postumus providentia400.jpg
    Postumus Serapis400.jpg
     
  16. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I have always liked the Pax reverse, but I also have Providentia
    Postumus 2.jpg Postumus 3.jpg
     
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