The King Farouk 1933 double eagle

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Those are some pretty egregious scratches and yes, I would bet that if you or I had sent in our 1923 St. Gaudens looking like that it would certainly come back with a damaged label. I often do double takes when I look at early copper and some of the grades they are blessed with. Yes, there is certainly some grade bias going on here. I put in my bid of $2800.00... Think it will fly?

Edit - I loved Rick's experts take... Lovely Gem condition with a few minor bag marks. Ha!!

 

The flat LordMarcovan series of coins is my retirement plan.

 

Wadoumean maybe?...it already is...

 

I agree that it's overgraded and probably shouldn't have gotten the sticker, but also agree that it doesn't matter. It's not like anybody is going to wait around for a better one.

Everyone seems to fawn over this design but I don't find it particularly attractive for a number of reasons.

 

I have often wondered if any of the other examples were ever properly probated and listed as an asset for determining an estates tax liability.

 

Another case of the celebrity halo effect. I get no such treatment for my bag marks.

 

Nice fields/rays/devices, but amongst my numerous Gem St. Gaudens I haven't a gem/better coin with detracting "bag rub".

1977 Official A.N.A. Standard for MS-65 St. Gaudens - Has full mint luster and brilliance, but may show slight discoloration.

 

Sorry, Randy, I just bid $2,801.00. I think I've got this one.

Bruce

 

The 1908 No Motto variety is known to have so-so luster, but the surfaces are smoother. This was my first double eagle, which I bought while I was in high school.



This 1927 is a PCGS MS-65, CAC, which is the same grade as the King Farouk example. Do you think that they are the same grade?

 

That's an interesting question. As the Langbord coins are considered stolen property, their value to an estate would be zero. Israel Switt died in 1990 and they were kept secret until 2005, so I doubt they ever showed up in his estate. As for the Farouk example, I'm not aware that anyone has ever died with it in their possession.

 

A believed at least MS66 grade coin! JMHO

 

If you are referring to the 1908 $20 gold, it’s graded MS-64 as it should be. It’s quite smooth, but the luster is muted as it was made.

I was taken to the woodshed on the PCGS board for grading the 1933 double eagle MS-63. The “experts” are falling all over themselves to find justifications the MS-65 grade and the CAC sticker.

While it’s true that the coin is rare and the only example available to private collectors, it still has those gashes on the knee and numerous minor marks in the fields. As one dealer put it, “If I bought that piece as a bullion related ‘MS-65’, I would be quite disappointed.”

 

Just kinda wondering if it would have made any difference in the ownership outcome to the Court had the coins been probated, properly scheduled and taxed as part of an estate at some point in their lineage.

 

It's something to ponder I guess. If you inherited $100 million worth of paintings stolen during WWII and paid estate tax on them, the rightful heirs are still likely to win them back. But if you inherit $100 million in stolen US property, and there's some question about whether it's really US property, does the acceptance by the IRS of your tax form legitimize their possession? I'm guessing not. Some clerk at the IRS isn't going to know squat about a 1933 double eagle. It wouldn't stop an attorney from making the argument in court though.

 

A little late to this but it just goes to the absurdity of ANA market grading where progeny is as much an element of the grade as is eye appeal. Whatever tickles the market, translated, your pocketbook, is an element of the market grade. The chain of custody can influence it, CAC beaning this grade evidencing it grades by the same book. That’d be by the ANA market grading book. Technically, that Farouk is a 64, I agree. It’s a 64 without the thumb of the market on the scale.

 

Well to be fair since it's the only 1933 double eagle graded, it is the highest graded example lol. I agree that technically it shouldn't be MS65, but as it's the only 1933 double eagle legal to privately own (and one of only 13 still confirmed to even exist), the grade is pretty much irrelevant. Knocking it down a few grades wouldn't diminish the value. It set the record for being the most money ever paid for a US coin... and when it lost that record, it later set it again on its second sale.

I'm of the opinion that "market-grading" shouldn't even be a thing, but the TPGs are going to do it anyway regardless of what I think, so whatever. It's possible to privately own a better looking St. Gauden's double eagle. But not a 1933 one.