VCoins Dealer Code of Ethics

Part of the relevant code of ethics reads: "I will promptly deliver items I sell unless other arrangements are made with the buyer."

What is deemed promptly? I am asking, because I've recently purchased a coin and almost immediately paid for it. Two weeks in and the coin has not even shipped yet. I understand that it is festive season, but why list a coin for sale if you know you will not be able to deliver in a timely manner (or am I missing something)?

 

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I would say promptly means the item is shipped within 2-3 business days of payment, unless the seller has disclosed that they are away. Auction settings are different since thousands of time end at once.

 

Seems like there has been a few issues with vCoins lately.

 

I placed an order with a VCOINS dealer last year that seemed to take a long time. I received an auto-reply thanking me for my purchase but then silence—crickets chirping—would be an appropriate sound effect. I emailed and called and got no reply. Finally I received an email from the dealer apologizing for the delay because he had been in the hospital with a serious illness. I suspect that some of the dealers on VCOINS are one person operations.

 

On the same day in two separate emails...

"Thank you for your order. We take pride in delivering the best possible service, and we are dedicated to your satisfaction."

+​

"Thank you for your purchase. We have received your PayPal payment for Order #xxx-xxxx, in the amount of xxxx."

No mention was made of being away. I normally wait 60 days on average for a coin to be delivered, but to wait 14 days+ for it to ship is another story altogether. I hope the seller has a good explanation for the delay.

I don't wish for the seller to be in hospital in this instance, but you're right - there is probably a good reason for the delay (although it is currently lost on me). In any case, I am planning to contact the seller within the first week or so of the new year. I think that would be more than fair.

I can understand that personal circumstances come into play, but I also have to look out for my interests - despite the fact that we're ultimately not owners of any coins, but merely curators.

 

I am being selective on Vcoins as to Sellers whom delivered promptly and exactly as represented. There are a few that have been superb, several that have delivered and represented as promised, and a few sub-par. I have a few trusted eBayers, and the same with MA-Shops. As to other sites not associated with these selling venues, I also have trusted Sellers. And of course, I have a basket of Auction-Houses that I use.

Having purchased many Ancients, Modern Golds, and others over the last few years, I have had a few stings, some pain-points, but mainly good experiences. However, I observe and learn from others as well as being a quick-study of my own experiences. I research as much as I can. When in doubt, I pass... there are too many other excellent Sellers out there that will perform well. I vote with my money.

 

I am still relatively new to Vcoins - only two transactions this far. Hopefully I will have a list of trusted sellers to fall back on before long. Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. If not, I would understand that you wish to protect your sources and rightly so.

 

I am careful, as there are many Sellers that I have not used on Vcoins, and do not want to taint them. I have learned through watching carefully with different folks postings, and of course my experiences. Additionally, selecting sellers depends heavily on what items you are pursuing as well as your money you are willing to spend / risk. I also look up sellers, and google any info on them that I can (reviews, performance, etc.) If you are spending larger funds, pay attention to MOU's and provenance info, etc. Some folks here have Agents that they use for sound advice. It all depends what you are focused on. Again, I make mistakes, but I do try to LISTEN to comments, read between the lines, and try my best at RESEARCH.

 

I have only used a handful of Vcoins sellers and my experiences have all been good. Someone with more experience than me using multiple sellers should start a thread on the sellers that have good content/fair prices AND good customer service.

Does anyone know if a thread like that already exists?

 

I would say anything longer than a week to just ship the coin is stretching the definition of "prompt."

 

The two emails you get when you order from vcoins are automatically generated by the software. I usually see a we shipped it email that a person wrote within 3 days. If I don't hear anything in 3 days I use the contact the seller box on the order to ask about it. I have never had a seller take more than 10 days (usually more like 3 days) to ship me something until now (if you are following my other thread).

 

Is the payment confirmation email also automated?

 

My payment messages have all been automated, yes.

 

I have delayed responding to this thread (and that of Theodosius) as while I am a dealer on VCoins I am in no way related to the ownership or management of the site or any of the individual dealers. As such I dont want it to appear as if I am speaking or representing anyone but myself.

VCoins is indeed a hosting company. Dealers offer their coins on the site and run their businesses as they see fit. One cant blame VCoins for anything that happens with an individual dealer as they are unrelated to them other than hosting the software and the basic concept (but very important as they are the ones who require all to adhere to the Code of Ethics, which I will address below).

There are many reasons why a dealer might not respond or ship a coin in a timely manner, some of which have already beed addressed. I will mention a few:

Average age of the dealer. Most dealers are **ahem** of a certain age. Many are older, which brings many challenges. Their familiarity with modern technology, how it works, how to check for orders, etc. But there is also the health issue. I myself (a young guy) had some health issues for a couple of years which caused a lot of delays and likely loss of many customers. It happens.

The holiday season. Its possible a dealer may be off work for a specific time. For Europeans it is usually for longer periods than for North American. Now, VCoins does offer a way to make it plain a dealer might be off work. There is a calendar, there is the scrolling 'announcements', and finally there is a message that can be displayed on checkout advising the buyer of, well, anything. BUT, do the individual dealers know about one or all three of these? I dont know, but I am aware and have used all three before and even so I have received angry e-mails about orders while I was on vacation. When I pointed out the various methods, all (so far) have said, 'yea, I guess I did see that and can still see it now'. But if the dealer doesn't use those functions nobody will know (and even if they do many wont see it anyway).

The 'type' of dealer. There are many 'dealers' out there that simply have a collection for sale. Anyone with a computer, some coins and the right references can become a 'dealer' (the same is true anywhere, Ebay, etc). I cant say what might be behind anyones frame of thought, but everyone simply doesn't think the same nor do they interpret events in the same manner.

Size of the dealer. VCoins is primarily populated with individual dealers. This means likely they are one person operations. Running everything together is not the same for them as it is for say CNG, Berk, Lanz, etc. Some dealers clearly mention in their terms that they ship only once a week (I dont know if anyone reads the terms or not). Being a one person operation is far more challenging that the 'big guys', I can tell you!

Tracking numbers. We are all at the mercy of the postal system. Technically for the US postal system they are required to scan all items into their system immediately upon receiving them (that is done automatically if one is shipping in person at the counter) but for most of us who use pre-printed postage, well, I have seen postal employees immediately scan the packages when dropped off, but just as many who just toss them into a giant bin and ignore them. What that does to the tracking system I dont know.

So, to end this post I would suggest the following. Try to contact the dealer first. The acceptable response time is entirely up to the individual. If you dont get a response you need to contact VCoins directly. There is (as in most websites) a 'contact us' link. There really is a live person behind this (many likely know him). VCoins cant do anything unless they know about the situation. Believe me, there have been dealers kicked off the site for less in the past. Action will be taken if they know about it. The code of ethics is real but it cant be enforced it VCoins doesnt know about the matter.

 

Thank you for a thorough reply. Much appreciated.

It is one of those posts that should be used as an article. I think it can definitely help to bring more understanding between buyers and sellers. I mean, a little understanding based on a wider perspective can go a long way.

Don't get me wrong, it is not nice having to wait ages for a coin to be shipped and/or delivered. However, it is certainly nice to know that there are other human beings out there that are not very different from myself. We are not always at our best form, but we're making an effort - despite our weaknesses - real and perceived. Is it good enough? Well, I guess there is always room for improvement, but there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Silverbullion,

I've ordered Judaean coins from a lot of VCOINS dealers and have been treated well by all that I have done business with. However—I do have to tell you that the fastest service that I regularly receive (Same day service on 3 separate occasions) was from Pars Coins.

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/pars_coins-121/ancient-coins/Default.aspx?#!/Home

 

I've always liked the Vcoins dealers that I've dealt with ... well, except for that "Holyland Numismatics" guy (he seemed crooked ... and after waiting forever, I ended-up settling for a 'similar' coin compared to the one that I ordered => brutal)

... but other than that lone bad experience, Vcoins has been very solid

 

Thank you. I am now following the Pars Coins store.

Thank you for the feedback. Much appreciated.

P.S. What I like about the sellers at Vcoins is the fact that many don't seem to have a problem with worldwide shipping. It is certainly another plus in my book.

 

The only thing I will point out about this phrase is that "promptly" is not meaningful as used in this sentence, since it isn't quantified at all.

Legally, a merchant who is paid via credit card CANNOT charge the purchaser's card until the item is physically shipped (unless other arrangements, such as a down payment, etc., have been made). This is violated all the time, but it's still illegal.

Personally, if I purchase an item that is listed as being in a dealer's inventory, my definition of "prompt" is that the item is shipped within 1 - 2 days of when my check is cashed or my credit card is charged. The delivery time of course will vary based on many factors, but unless the dealer is prepared to ship my item within 1 - 2 days of my funds clearing, I think it's unethical to take my money for that item.

 

Good point. It brings me to the following question: What length of time before shipment commences is deemed reasonable when it comes to pre-orders?

I know it is not exactly the same as having to wait on shipment after funds cleared during normal, day-to-day transactions where items are listed as in stock, but in essence it boils down to this: Someone is holding someone else's money while the item is outstanding.

I had to wait almost 12 months for a coin on pre-order in one instance. I eventually discovered that the seller kept moving the expected delivery date. In fact, I've discovered that it is common practice at the relevant dealership to do so. Is there a law against it?