ICG on Imdian Head Cents

I was also look at some trends on heritage's website. What do You all believe to be the value difference between an RB and BN? Is seemed to be a couple of hundred bucks out of a thousand. Also from the examples I looked at it seemed that ICG is a little feeder in giving RB than PCGS? What do you all think?

 

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You sound VERY informed. What was the last ICG coin you purchased - when? How many ICG Indian cents have you tried to cross to PCGS/NGC. No need to answer but until you do IMO your post is ...?

 

IMO, ICG's RB coins may often have more brown than PCGS; however, some time ago (when?) ICG introduced Brown-Red (BR) to their grading system for copper to narrow the difference where it occurs.

Look, I've been collecting before there were grading or authentication services. In the old day's, a copper coin was red until it got a little brown. Then the coin became RB all the way through the changes of color until there was only a trace of red left. After any trace of red (often inside or next to the relief) was gone, the coin was finally brown. Easy, no disagreements, no percentages to guess, nothing. Any red = RB.

The old "TRUE technical" grading system that was only used at ANACS in DC ** used this R/RB/B criteria. This does not work well when trying to put copper coins into a "box of color" to indicate their value as is done today by the major TPGS's. As already posted there is a large difference in value between a red coin and one that is almost all red.

** In a grading seminar decades ago taught by the man who developed it, we learned that true technical grading as it was devised in DC for internal record keeping was "bastardized and changed" when ANACS was moved to CO. Although they claimed to grade technically, it was close but no cigar.

 

No. By "for crossover purposes" I meant crossover is your purpose, i.e., what you're trying to achieve. If it crosses, it crosses. Sorry if that was unclear.

Adding: If it doesn't cross, it'll be a point off. They're all three a point off, when they're off, 99.99% of the time...and maybe more.

 

NGC only takes PCGS coins for crossover anyway, any other slab company and they will crack it out and grade it raw.

 

I have had success crossing ICG coins within 1 point to PCGS. Of course I cherry pick, and anticipated (and paid accordingly) for the downgrades. Bottom line: Learn to grade for yourself and the rest becomes easier).

On another note, the older ICG holders (with the barcode on the front) tended to be more conservative than the subsequently graded pieces IMHO. Moderns were all over the place, and classic coins often would be within 1 point for the OLDER GENERATION holders. My last cross was a gold Indian Princess Dollar. ICG called it MS67, PCGS/CAC called it MS66. I paid less than PCGS MS66 money for it and was happy with the result.

 

My experience is that the old green PCI holders with 9 and 10 digit holders with old inserts with the sans-serif font were reasonably graded. Someone revived the nine digit label and used a different font (Arial?), and I agree that those tend to be grossly overgraded.

 

Someone also revived the 10 digit PCI. It was one of the many owners of PCI. They got the heck beat out of them on the forums. The poor grading and labels gave them away.

 

I had several MS67 ICG graded Lincolns that most likely would have graded MS66 at both PCGS and NGC. Of course the price I paid for the coins were comparable to one point lower PCGS and NGC grades. In general, if bidding for an ICG graded coin, I will look at past auction prices for lower graded NCG and PCGS coins and bid accordingly. Of course, I have to like the coin in the first place and that is my top consideration.

 

I checked, and I actually own 3 ICG coins, all properly graded, and all with the barcode on the front, so this backs up your experience.

 

I own many ICG coins. I have learned to grade and when I send a coin in to ICG for grading I can always know what the grade it is going to come back at. Their grading in right there with the big two. The wholesale value is not. Again buy the coin not the holder, unless you are planning on selling it soon. Dealers will not give you the money for an ICG coin.

 

P.S. I have an ANACS Jefferson Nickel 1947 MS64 FS (full steps) that in no way had full steps. It had three steps at best, so I don't trust ANACS for grading.

 

Welcome to the form. I have found that a very large percentage of the posts I read on coin forms are nuts!

 

What generation holder?

 

I was trying to sell an 1894 Morgan graded AU58 by ICG to SilverTowne, and the guy told me that in his opinion ICG stands for "I Can't Grade." I eventually sold the coin but not to Silver Towne.

 

The Silver Towne comment is ironic since they seem to improperly grade many of the raw coins they sell; especially not identifying cleaned coins.

 

They also got slammed in a civil suit for fraud. 2010-2011. The give away (besides the font) is that the microprinted box of PCI PCI PCI on the reverse is a blob instead of microprinting.

 

@Burton Strauss III

You sound VERY informed. What was the last ICG coin you purchased - when? How many ICG Indian cents have you tried to cross to PCGS/NGC.