Years after new laws and ebay policies, Fake Morgans still flooding ebay

EBay publicly has a policy that replica and counterfeit coins are not allowed to be sold at all on its website. It also has a reporting system that purportedly allows you to report the items, although it is inefficient and in many cases arguably doesn't give you an opportunity to report the reason at all. On its face, to someone who has never ever used the website or is only aware tangentially of the operation of its reporting system and policy, it can create the false appearance that eBay is making a good faith effort.

The relevant provisions of the HPA targeting those that aide people selling non-HPA compliant pieces were added in 2014, and additional rules promulgated by the FTC didn't take effect until a month ago. Now that the FTC has gone through the public comments/rule making process and has issued its own rules and guidance, I suspect that it will begin taking enforcement more seriously, but it will probably take a complaint to push eBay to change its reporting system and clarify its existing policy. It doesn't help that to someone who is unaware of the case law and statutes (i.e. those charged with enforcing eBay policy), it might not always be clear under current guidance what is legally problematic or not. Also, for truly convincing counterfeits, there will always be coins that fall through the cracks. The best that can be done is to improve the reporting system so that problematic listings that are flagged are removed.

Finally, it is worth noting that the only problem that is curable through eBay is improving the reporting system. There will always be people that post counterfeits, and it is impossible to stop it 24/7 with 100% accuracy. The government won't punish those trying to comply in good faith. As such, it makes sense to specifically address the problem (the counterfeiters/ minters themselves) or else you are merely putting a band aid on it. Moreover, you will never be able to stop the Chinese operating overseas.

Finally, I would hang on to the counterfeit and study it.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

As coin collectors, our focus is on fake coins, naturally. But eBay also is a haven for fake watches, electronics and designer items. In terms of dollars lost by legitimate manufacturers, the toll is enormous.

No one ever lost a job at the US Mint because of fake coins. Not so with the manufacturers I cited.

If it's difficult for eBay to police fakes, that qualifies as tough stuff. They'd probably find it a whole lot easier with a proper "nudge" from the federal authorities.

 

Ther are also struck fakes that are good enough they have fooled the TPG's and been slabbed as genuine.

Ebay used to have a very good reporting system for fake coins, a direct link that bypassed all the reports for other things and went straight to a knowledgeable group that could quickly check out the report and have the listing pulled. Sometimes in less than a hour. The reporting form allowed up to 10,000 characters for a complete description of why the coin was a fake. They pulled that system and disbanded the group of experts four or five years ago. Fake coins on ebay have exploded since that time.

 

I remember when the reporting system worked and you would even get a thank you email from one of the girls in customer service. The only reporting system that seems to work anymore is posting the auctions in the "ebay counterfeit reporting" section on the Coin Community Forum. The forum dad, bobby1313, has a contact at ebay that can and does get the auctions nuked.

 

"One of the girls in customer service"? You're dating yourself.

The main contact person, and the one who did the most to keep things honest, was Judith. I really miss having Judith working for us at eBay, and hope she's found a position where her work is appreciated and rewarded.

(Edit: no need to post her full name here, although it does appear in the linked thread. It looks like she's still at eBay, working in much the same area; it's a shame they aren't giving her more power to act in the coin categories.)

 

Yes, most times it was Judith who sent the thank you. Was it that long ago? My how time flies...

 

I think it was your choice of verbiage; we're of a generation which doesn't consider the use of the term "girls" to refer to adult women as disrespectful.

 

Disrespectful? Since when and why wasn't I included on the notice...

 

Same here...

 

any way to make a buck =/

 

Whether or not that system was better is debatable.
I once had a genuine but uncertified 1859-S Seated Liberty Dollar that I listed on eBay with excellent photographs. This "group of experts" declared that it was fake and cancelled the auction. The coin was genuine and I had it certified by one of the three major certification companies a few months later. So the so-called eBay "experts" were not really experts. The problem is, anybody who is good enough to accurately and reliably separate the false from the genuine could probably get a much better gig working for someone else (or themselves) within the field of numismatics.

But I do note that I am now seeing more false (mostly non-silver) Morgan Dollars on eBay than ever before.

 

Yes, gramps, refering fo a woman over about 15 or in a professional role as 'girls' is disrespecful. Ask one. Just because you don't mind being called boys is irrelevant.

PS: There are several other groups who don't like your nicknames for them.

 

I've been stung once I know of with too cheap coins. Now I ask the seller why they are priced so low. They never reply. So I send a note to eBay.
About all is can do.

 

I would rather have an over cautious group than one who will let anything slide.

 

There were many sellers who said the knew better and made major stinks about their listings being taken down. eBay prefers the do nothing approach to anything that will cost them money in either staff $ or FVFs.

 

At the time, there were plenty of false coins that they let slide by.

 

Mistakes were made but they did take down a lot of bad coins.

 

In my opinion one of the big problems was that it became a tool for people to eliminate competing listings. I had a couple PCGS coins taken down one of which even had a CAC as well as an ANACS that there was absolutely nothing wrong with. The over cautious method sounds good in theory but it turns into a way for people take out competition

 

I can imagine unscrupulous sellers using the old policy to take down competitors, but of course I didn't have any visibility into that -- I was strictly a buyer at that time.

Still, eBay's action seems a bit like saying "people are phoning in false 911 reports, so we're shutting that service down. From now on, just use our anonymous tips line."

 

For the record, the experts Ebay relied upon for their authentication were all volunteer numismatic professionals, at least one of whom posts here.