Question about Daniel Carr offerings

Lol, from now on, I am going to call you the Donald lol.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

On one, a scammer could grind off the "COPY" mark, wear the coin down (leaving the rare date visible), and sell it as an original coin for a potentially high price. On a fantasy-date over-strike, such as a "1964" Morgan dollar, a scammer could grind off the date. But then they would have a dateless Morgan that wouldn't be worth any more than the silver content.

 

If you re-engraved all the details on a worn Bust Dollar (for example) the result would be an altered ("tooled") Bust Dollar, not a copy of a Bust Dollar.

 

Interesting, both of the ROM items without the word COPY on them discussed a few hours ago in this thread just sold tonight. Things that make you go hmmmm....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Overstrike-...490046?hash=item3ad4cfc7be:g:PNYAAOSwA3dYR5CI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Overstrike-...512650?hash=item3ad4d0200a:g:fNQAAOSw44BYTjJ2

 

The only people that know your stuff is fake are coin collectors. That is a very small portion of the population.

 

He should give Dan a commission

Looks like his sales plan is still working to a degree

 

It makes it much harder to commit fraud (especially mass fraud), and it softens the blow financially as it would also purport to be a lower grade. It isn't perfect, but it is a start. Speed limits don't stop everyone from speeding either, but that doesn't mean we should repeal all speed limits and road rules and have a huge free-for-all.

 

My "stuff" is novelty collectibles, not "fakes".

But to take your argument to a logical conclusion:
The only people that would know a certain coin (such as a "1964" Peace Dollar) is potentially valuable is coin collectors, the very people that would also know the history of such a coin.

 

BINGO. The argument that people will consult the Red Book is misguided. Remember the resemblance and similitude requirement is whether it would fool a person of ordinary skill/intelligence without special knowledge. In other words, no Red Books allowed! Most people probably have never seen a Peace Dollar. You could bring a velvet tray out full of genuine mint state Peace Dollars and put one your coins on the tray and ask "which one is the fake?" Try it.

 

You caught that paradox too huh.

 

The Title 18 statutes were not passed merely to protect coin collectors, but to protect the integrity of U.S. money both current and former. When people see that some random engineer in Colorado can make convincing pieces just like the government, it diminishes faith in the integrity of our currency especially when the government does not stop it.

 

I knew you'd come around.lol

 

Except that Morgan's and peace dollars are not used in commerce anymore, so it doesn't diminish faith. Someone churning out fake bills is different.

 

The rest of the population with no numismatic interests don't even know his stuff exists, or Morgans, or Peace dollars, or 3 cent pieces, or 2 cent pieces ect ect.

 

Or even Eisenhower's or small dollars for the most part

 

I never buy any coin over $200 unless it is certified, even then because of fake slabs I check it carefully. Why do we not just mandate that all coins of higher value have to be certified to be sold?

 

The ordinary person of today would most likely say the tray was a cool tray of bullion rounds if they even knew that much. Ordinary people don't know anything not in circulation existed, hell half the people don't even know half dollars are real

 

Over-strikes on existing genuine coins of the same denomination do not dilute the total amount of money in circulation. And when they are sold as a novelty expression of "art" for prices in excess of the original face value, there is no danger or damage to the integrity of the US Government.

In the VonNothaus trial, however, potential damage to the integrity of government-issued currency was a concern of the prosecutor. This is because Von NotHaus' "Liberty Dollars" were touted by his organization as a superior alternative to Federal Reserve Notes and encouraged people to use them in lieu of ordinary government-issue money.

 

My peace is bigger than your Morgan. Lol.

 

Article I, Section 8 grants Congress the power to coin money and to punish counterfeiting. Not even states have the power to coin money (see Article I, Section 10). Congress has used its constitutional powers to grant itself a monopoly on producing items in the similitude or resemblance to the design or inscription of U.S. coins and currency. The sole exception is provided for by the HPA for items marked "COPY." You are not authorized to strike pieces in the design of U.S. coins. It really is that simple.

As for your alteration/defacement argument, alteration/defacement itself is not illegal unless (1) there is an intent to defraud OR (2) there is some other factor such as a relevant law which bans the alteration/defacement. The fraudulent alteration statute merely states that it is a federal crime to alter/deface/mutilate U.S. coinage if there is an intent to defraud. It does not state that all alterations/mutilation/defacing is legal in the absence of fraud. There is nothing in that statute that overrides 18 U.S.C. 485 and the other Title 18 statutes.