Years after new laws and ebay policies, Fake Morgans still flooding ebay

Been on ebay lately? It doesn't take much hunting to find fake Morgan dollars from China, by the hundreds. Here's my story:

I am new to collecting coins and paper currency, so I thought I was playing it safe by sticking with "domestic US coins". When I saw these silver dollars going for a fraction of the normal price, I jumped at the chance. After about five purchases, I started worrying. After all, my parents told me "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is". So I did my research. China has been making this junk since 2006 and they're really good at it. When I got the coins, I weighed them, did the magnet and ice tests, and compared them to real Morgan dollars. Every test passed. Then I struck them together and they made a nice pretty ringing sound. But I wasn't convinced. I found some software that listened to the ringing sound and the coins all failed every single time. Ebay was quick to issue me a full refund on the coins and the seller was unreachable.

But some questions remain: Why were all the fakes going for so cheap and not closer to the average price? Why isn't the new counterfeiting law or ebay policy update even remotely effective? Should I destroy the fakes since ebay does not require me to return them to the seller?

Thanks in advance, y'all!

 

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Did you pay below spot price for them? If they weigh the same and are silver my advice would be to mark or drill them in some way that would make them ungradable then chuck them in your junk silver pile. If you post some pictures on here that might lead to some good discussion. There are a lot of super knowledgeable people here who would be able to point out what to look for so others don't also get fooled by these in the future

Also, welcome to the forum.

 

Another good reason to subscribe to Numismatic News, as Michael "Skip" Fazzari is always doing articles, along with photos, on how to detect fakes. He did one on the ASE's. If you register with the NN site, you will be able to access all past articles ( with a paid subscription ) A small investment in the bigger scheme of getting ripped off. IMHO.

 

Yes, it was a pretty glaring hint that they cost less than an ounce of silver. However, I've seen legitimate auctions go unnoticed before and sometimes get some good deals that way. What sealed it for me was winning five separate auctions within two days.

Thanks

 

Pictures of coin and ring test

 

The too good to be true it is motto is a good one to stick to with ebay. If something is going way below market value then something else there is almost always a reason. They sell cheaply because most people will not buy US coins from Chinese sellers with good reason. Another is a lot of people know they're fake and pass.

 

I think a good rule of thumb is to stick with US dealers with a decent track record of selling coins. Doesn't mean Americans aren't selling fakes, but I think there is a reduction in the risk of getting a package addressed to U.R. Stuck.

 

Another thing to always look for, bag marks or dings on the face, fields,rims. If they look too perfect, it's a good indicator of a fake. Also that greyish flat colored patina.

 

Where's all the CT lawyers when a real numismatic threat is discussed?

To the OP, beyond what has been discussed above I suggest you go to the Coin Community Forum site and look at all the threads about counterfeit coins, many of them being Morgan Dollars, if you wish to learn how to spot counterfeits. This site seems to only argue over the legalities of DC overstrikes.

 

So you said you weighed them and they were spot on correct? I'm not totally convinced that computer software could spot a fake just from the ring consistently if that is your only evidence. Just seams like there are too many variables (distance from microphone, force of the strike to produce the sound etc.). Did you test the software on several legitimate coins to make sure it could distinguish?

One thing you could try is to test the coin's specific weight. The specific weight = weight of coin / volume of coin. You can measure the exact volume of a coin by putting it in a graduated cylinder filled with water and measuring the displacement. You can find instructions online if you google it. Compare the specific weight you calculate agains the specific weight of a 90% silver 10% copper alloy. If the forgers used real silver then I think there's no problem. Just cull the coins and keep them for their silver content.

 

There is a generation of Chinese counterfeits that are the correct weight by an increase in thickness.

 

I see. That's unfortunate that their methods are getting so advanced that they can match the weight convincingly with cheaper metals. I suppose measurements with a good set of digital calipers could reveal the deception then?

 

I'm not sure I'd call that "advanced" -- it would be dead easy to spot; just put the coin on a flat surface next to a legitimate example.

 

Perhaps advanced was the wrong term. Conscientious might have been a better word for it. The fact that they are paying attention to weight and actively trying to get more convincing at faking it is troubling. Especially for new collectors that don't have as much experience yet.

 

This is older technology as far as that goes. There are now struck counterfeits encased in counterfeit TPG slabs as well. See this link for an older generation cast counterfeit http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=261816&SearchTerms=1881,cc and then see this link for a counterfeit PCGS slab http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=275445

 

Good info Dave. Thanks!

 

Busy criticizing someone without the monetary resources to fight back, unlike eBay and its corporate attorneys.

 

I've yet to test for density or with digital caliper. I was skeptical of the listening software but I tested it many times with many coins to see if it was spitting out random results. I'm inclined to believe it wasn't.

 

There are 5 coin shops in town and each has a meter (they said it cost approximately $900, less than what they'd lose on a fake 1 oz. gold piece) that you place a coin on it and it tells you whether it's gold, silver, etc. Any of the dealers are happy to test any coin I might have doubts about. There is a jewelry store in town that has a very expensive metal analyzer that even tells the percentage of the different metals in a coin or jewelry, they also are kind enough to test a coin if I have concerns about it.

There must be someone in your area that has one of these devises that can test the Morgan Dollars you bought.

You are allowed to keep counterfeit coins as an educational devise. I am the keeper of the coins for my coin club. Here are a few examples: