When did PCGS start holdering problem coins and using the Genuine label?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ldhair, Dec 16, 2024.

  1. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Second question. Did the descriptions of Planchet Flaw and Peeling Lamination change over the years? I know that 30 years ago, they would both come back in body bags.
     
    Barney McRae likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Well.... I don't have a photo here with me at work. Maybe five years ago I purchased a 1794 large cent that has very nice detail but also has obvious corrosion. I sent it in and asked for a genuine label and they did exactly that for me. So it isn't new.
     
  4. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Well-Known Member

    Interested to see what the collective says. I just don't get it........if you go to the hassle of shipping a TPG coins, surviving the USPS incompetency, spending money on insurance, and waiting.........why not just get it graded in the process? It baffles me.
     
    okbustchaser likes this.
  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I am not sure I have a clamshell Jefferson 44P that is nearly split in half. It is in a PCGS 12.1 holder. March 2014.
     
  6. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Based on this release, it seems to have started in 2008.

    PCGS Revised Genuine Service

    My recollection was it was around the same time as the edgeview holders but I could be wrong.

    I am wrong, it appears that the PCGS pronged holder debuted in 2011.

    PCGS Museum of Coin Holders
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2024
    ldhair likes this.
  7. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I've never understood why "planchet flaw" would get a details grade.
     
  8. Rheingold

    Rheingold Well-Known Member

    That‘s a good point, since the the planchet itself is the problem. So no Post Mint Damage!!
     
    Barney McRae and fiddlehead like this.
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    When do they give out a DETAILS label ? GENUINE label ?

    And am I correct...neither one gets a number ?


    I thought DETAILS was with no number and it indicated a coin that has been altered....cleaned....surface changed....etc.
     
  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Some planchet flaws as in laminations or clamshells, they didn't encapsulate because lamination might come loose and float in the slab. Same with clamshells for the sake that they became separated.
     
  11. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I thought it was earlier than that, but that they charged a fortune for it and really only wanted to encourage its use for major rarities.
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  12. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    As mentioned already 2007 is when the TPGs first started slabbing problem coins. If one searches the forum they'll find a great many posts/threads from that time condemning it, applauding it, and discussing it in pretty much every way imaginable.

    You could also search the numismatic magazine archives and find many articles there as well.

    Over the years many of the definitions used by PCGS, as well as other TPGs, have changed. And no they didn't all happen at the same time. You can find examples in the PCGS grading book, (2nd edition was 2004), and they'll be different from what is used today; in what they call the Lingo section on their website, and a different section (can't recall exactly what they call it) but it's where they tell you what they will give clean grades and what they will give problem coin designations. You could also use the Way Back Machine (internet archive) and examples there.

    This is a copy of what the problem coin designations used to be from some years ago. The only way I can find the original creation date of this file is to dig into some of my backups from years ago, and I have no idea which one off the top of my head. But I'll see if I can dig it up. But it does specifically list what you asked about Larry.

    No Grades
    PCGS will not grade and encapsulate any coins with the following problems:

    82 Filed Rims Rim(s) and/or edge is filed.

    83 Peeling Lamination Potential for sealing damage.

    84 Holed and/or Plugged Any filled or non-filled hole.

    86 No Opinion – our experts are unable to determine a coin’s authenticity –
    fee not refunded

    87 Not Eligible For Service Selected – the coin is too valuable for the
    chosen service level – fee refunded

    90 Questionable Authenticity – the coin is most likely a counterfeit.

    91|N-1 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper)

    92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning

    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet –
    depends on severity

    94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over
    (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance).

    95|N-5 Scratch - depends on the severity of the scratch. Rim dent.

    96|N-6 No Service – coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately
    made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins)

    97|N-7 Environmental Damage – i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer),
    excessively heavy toning, etc.

    98|N-8 Damage – deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed,
    etc. – depends on severity

    99|N-9 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) – a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that
    will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the
    surfaces.




    No Grade Description
    90 Not Genuine
    91 Artificial Color
    92 Cleaning
    93 Planchet Flaw
    94 Altered Surfaces
    95 Scratch / Rim Dent
    96 Refund - No Service
    97 Environmental Damage
    98 Damage
    99 PVC

     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This is a copy of problem coin designations and codes taken from their website quite few years later. And as you can see they didn't even mention the codes 82,83, and 84 any longer. And if memory serves, what they say today is even different from this.


    PCGS – “NO GRADES”, GENUINE SERVICE, AND DESIGNATIONS
    No Grades
    PCGS will not grade and encapsulate any coins with the following problems:
    86 No Opinion – our experts are unable to determine a coin’s authenticity – fee refunded
    87 Not Eligible For Service Selected – the coin is too valuable for the chosen service level – fee refunded
    90 Questionable Authenticity – the coin is most likely a counterfeit.
    91|N-1 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper)
    92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning
    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet – depends on severity
    94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance).
    95|N-5 Scratch - depends on the severity of the scratch
    96|N-6 No Service – coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins)
    97|N-7 Environmental Damage – i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer), excessively heavy toning, etc.
    98|N-8 Damage – deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed, etc. – depends on severity
    99|N-9 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) – a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the surfaces.

    GENUINE Service
    Coins with any of the problems listed above (except codes 86, 87, 90, 96, and 99) may be submitted under the PCGS Genuine Service. Holders and inserts for the Genuine service will be identical to the normal PCGS holder except that the insert will read “GENUINE” in place of the usual grade. No grade will be assigned to these coins, but they will be eligible for inclusion in the PCGS Set Registry with a grade value of 1. Genuine service coins will be covered under the PCGS Guarantee of Authenticity but not under the PCGS Guaranty of Grade. PCGS reserves the right to reject any coins submitted under the Guarantee Service, including coins that are excessively damaged, altered to such a degree that making a determination of authenticity is difficult or impossible, or which have surface contaminants that may harm the coin in the future. In such cases, PCGS will refund the fee and related shipping charges for that coin. Customers should submit all coins for the Genuine Service on a regular PCGS submission form, marking “GENUINE SERVICE” in the “Other” box. The fee for the Genuine service is $100 per coin. Turnaround times for the Genuine Service will be approximately two weeks. The Genuine Service is a stand-alone service and is not available in combination with any other service levels. “No-grades” from other service levels must be resubmitted under the Genuine Service in order to be encapsulated.
     
    ldhair and GoldFinger1969 like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page