Hand Engraved versus Machine Engraved

Was just listening to a professor of architecture discussing the reopening of the Cathedral at Notre Dame that has just reopened after a fire had destroyed the place in 2019. Much of the discussion centered around all the gothic statues that were recreated by machine. The pieces were recreated to the finest detail, however the general consensus (of this professor) was that the pieces were lifeless.

Now I have long thought that our current coinage is lifeless and I believe this professor has nailed it. The human hand imparts life to its work. You can look at a 1921 Peace dollar and a 2021 Peace dollar side by side and it is glaringly obvious. The 2021 while virtually perfect is lifeless. All the current quarter designs strike me much the same. Shouldn’t we have a human hand creating our master dies?

 

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I sure wish we did, the high relief of coinage is what makes the coin stand out. Not to mention neat and fun variety's.

 

I see you liked this thread, but you didn't comment.

The 1921 Peace Dollar vs. the 2021 Peace Dollar | Coin Talk

 

Maybe because the Thread you reference was not referring to the human endeavor of translation of the reality of Life and Spirit, by employing God-given talents as appreciation of same, for humans to enjoy and wonder and contemplate.

The Notre Dame reconstruction is a wonderful example...as is contemplating the talent of Michelangelo's David vs. Warhol's Campbell Soup.

 

Here are the two coins side by side.



If the mint made the 2021 the same way as they made the 2009 High Relief $20 gold pieces, there is really little difference except of the fact that they got all of the hair detail. The modern method is to take a picture of the original work and create a "mother die" with lasers.

Here is the reverse.



Other than the fact that the modern version shows all of the design detail, I really don't see where "the human touch" makes much of a difference.

 

My intention was to lead members to that thread so they can compare both coins
But I see that @johnmilton shared the pictures from that thread.

Peace

 

No, these are coins from my collection. I created the side by side pictures less than 10 minutes ago.

 

I see. Then there was no reason to mention the OP didn't comment on a Thread.
My fault.

 

Ok. Buddy, relax. I've known you guys over a decade. We should be a bit comfortable with each other in simple innocent comments such as mine. I wasn't trying to start trouble or slander anyone.

My apologies if it bothered you so much.

 

Yes I know. Great job!

 

There is no perceptible difference. Neither is there a perceptible difference in the recreated statues at the Note Dame cathedral. Allow me to offer a different perspective.

I was heavily involved in professional music in the 1980’s. The trend was to create perfect sound that was free of any noise pollution. Live recording in the studio became a thing of the past. Compact disks were the trend and sound perfection was demanded. Lo and behold, people began shunning compact disks and returning to vinyl records with all the hissing and popping that came with it because the sound was more lifelike to the listeners ears.

I can hold a perfect 2024 quarter in my hand and admire the laser perfect design. But to me that design lacks the life and artistry that only the human hand can impart. That’s all I am saying here.

 

I see the logic in that comment, but in the case of the 1921 and 2021 Peace Dollars the original human touch was duplicated. Now we really do have "machine made tokens" as Dr. Sheldon once said of the post 1814 large cents. They do have a mechanical feel to them.

As for CDs versus vinyl, when I listened to music in my 20s and 30s headphones and had “dog ears” I know what people mean about the purity of vinyl recording. Today, I don’t have “dog ears” any more so CDs are fine by me.

You spend a lot money keeping a turntable up to snuff. The diamond electronic stylus alone cost over $50 in the 1970s, and they are slow to sell new needles to you so that you always had to buy the whole package, like it or not. Today, I prefer CDs, but now those are obsolete.

 

I had pretty good ears, but mostly what they were good for was making me flinch at every pop and crunch from vinyl. Especially since some of those pops and scratches couldn't be Discwashered away.

CDs stood up to college life better. Eventually, it was even possible to copy them, for piracy or for backup. Some time later, as you say, they became obsolete -- bits are bits, and can be losslessly copied forever. I like it that way.

 

I think you guys have thoroughly explained why I prefer ancient coins vs. moderns. Ancient coins have a certain "hand made" quality to them you just can't get with machined coins (even hand engraved ones).

 

OK.

 

@Randy Abercrombie In your opening post are you saying that he had to be a college professor to tell that the statues are lifeless? I’m not a professor but I know that statues are lifeless whether crested by hand or machine.

 

The recreated statues are lifeless because they haven't lived yet. The older ones acquired a lot of character with age.

As for modern coin design, yes, the modern CAD designs are dull and lifeless caricatures of the old designs, even when in the same relief. For the Morgans, they won't reproduce the sharpness of the originals. The could if they wanted to, but die life is more important than a sharply detailed coin. Peace dollars don't have any really sharp details, so these are more forgiving to the current practice. A big part of the coins' lifelessness is the dead luster applied to the dies before they're used. None of the luster that develops naturally as a die is used will ever be seen on these coins, because the mint doesn't want it. Their goal is to make every coin identical, and one reason for that is that if there were the possibility of varying luster qualities among them, they'd get more returns.

 

The 1921 is gem, the 2021 is costume gem.

 

To give artistic creations (coin dies, statuary, wood carvings, etc.) with final productions made by computer-controlled machines a more human-like touch, a bit of judiciously applied random error would need to be incorporated into the programming. This goes against the grain of engineers and programmers. And I imagine those directing and financing the projects wouldn’t like the idea either.

Regarding the Notre Dame fire, I was astounded that a national treasure like that did not have a fire sprinkler system. The cost of installation would have been miniscule compared to repairing what remained. And then there was the lost of irreplaceable objects and structures. I’ve visited quite a few museums, cathedrals and castles in the UK. Museums are pretty good on fire detection and suppression; cathedrals and castles, not so good. Don’t know about the Continent.

Cal

 

It really doesn't, though. Sometimes it's an essential part of engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither

The problem comes when the effect you're looking for comes only from an inherently slow process. Because the folks paying your salary always want more in less time.