Question about Daniel Carr offerings

Yes, but I think you make it worse with the production of some of your pieces which a novice could truly believe were rare like the 1964-D Peace Dollar and perhaps your 1964 Morgan Dollars. The government records are notoriously inaccurate (like for the 1933 double eagles), so it is plausible that the former exist. The latter were just discovered (or at least hubs were) so the pieces may or may not exist. I do think someone could fall prey to those, and I think these are dangerous to the ignorant.

 

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I would agree, this has turned from a simple yet serious discussion to something so far out in left field, it truly is getting ridiculous

 

Even I was once a "clueless novice". At that time, the biggest pitfall for such a person was (and still is to some extent) cleaned and polished coins sold as high grade "gems". It took sharing of knowledge and 3rd party certification to alleviate much of that in the hobby. If a person refuses to obtain the opinion of an expert before spending a bunch of money on something, there is nothing that can be done for them. That goes for cars, wine, Rolex watches, art prints, etc, etc.

 

You seem to be using emotional arguments rather than logical ones, which is why I say you seem emotional. Even today as an 'experienced' collector, I have to be careful much as a novice would. Maybe even more so as the coins I collect are more expensive.

Your argument that Mr Carrs work may lead to flooding the market seems crazy to me. The market is already flooded with Chinese fakes, whereas his pieces ar very few.

There is an old saying that you can not con an honest man. Greed and dishonesty are the most likely ways to be defrauded. For instance, you see a coin that is rare or valuable and the seller does not know. So you buy the coin without informing the seller, when you get it home and find out it is fake, then you have learned your lesson.

 

Should we repeal all consumer protection laws?

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. Self ignorance is not Mr. Carrs' problem, it's the unknowledged and unprepared buyer

 

Your not getting it, 2 words.... Knowledge and research

 

And a third, honesty.

 

I don't think my arguments concerning the relevant statutes/case law are based on emotion. I also don't think saying that people will likely be harmed by his pieces in the future is based on emotion either despite the fact that I do write passionately about the issue. Maybe I come off in a weird way that I don't see.

 

But... there's not going to be a honest seller everytime, self knowledge and research of a fake piece is where the buyer needs to protect t themselves

 

Many times I have seen a coin with great eye appeal and luster. However I do not know the series and have passed due to my lack of knowledge. The first coin book I read said buy the coin not the slab and read the book before you buy the coin.

 

You are interpreting the law, which is your opinion and you may be correct. However for those purchasing from Mr Carr at this time it seems to be a moot point.

 

Yes. Well not all, but most. And it's probably in the works as we speak

 

I never wanted to engage in a legal argument because it is just opinions regardless of what egos think. But this fake lawyering is far to ironic for people trying to claim this from a high horse of morality about what they FEEL is a fake.

Sadly it got very sad very fast and the imposters have exposed themselves rather quickly

 

Consumer Protection laws have their place in regards to ESSENTIAL items such as housing, automobiles, medicine, etc.

For non-essential benign items traded between individuals, no amount of consumer protection laws will make a difference if a person refuses to do even a minimum amount of due diligence.

If a person invested all their money in a stock without researching it first, what can (or should) be done, if anything ?

But this hypothetical person who is somehow motivated to spend a lot of money on a coin, even though they don't know anything about that coin, well, I don't think they actually exist. Because without knowledge, there is no motivation.

 

Exactly. Say for example a claimed "genuine" 1964 Morgan is found, and sells for a landish price, then it is determined the buyer really bought a Carr '64 Morgan...... buyers fault for not doing research to see determining marks to separate the two

 

You guys are silly.

 

Same thing if you buy a new car and after a month you find out it's not big enough for you..... is it the car manufacturers fault because they didn't build that specific car to your needs? Nope, it's your fault for buying too little of car

 

I meant honesty from the buyer lol. Many times it is the idea of getting a 'bargain' that drive a seller to make a mistake, which is greed. other times the buyer thinks the coin is something special and sees it is cheap. Either time the greed of the buyer makes them rush a decision, rather than ask the seller questions and take the time to research.

 

Okay that hypothetical who said it was real? No one but ANACS and ICG will grade them as of now and they'd both say they can tell the difference