Question about Daniel Carr offerings

I'm going to thoroughly enjoy taking my future wife to the cleaners with his representation

 

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It isn't mean spirited. I think it is bad for the hobby when people are confused by his pieces believing that his pieces are rare items. It is only a matter of time before someone is cheated. I care about this because I know people that are probably naïve enough to be fooled by his pieces, and know people that have been taken by the HSN (or like channel) and the overhyped garbage there.

As for the absurdity of my concern, have you read Coin World recently?: http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2016/08/1922-d-half-dollar-struck-at-private-mint.all.html#. Apparently his pieces are already generating confusion.

 

Me too! I must say that it was desperately needed and absolutely wonderful vacation. Thank you for caring.

Seriously though, yes... my post was indeed both "stupid" and childish to boot, and for very good reason. To put it simply: stupidity begets stupidity, even if it was an altogether fitting representation of what this thread has, most predictably, turned into.

 

Your "no ill will" comment was only a couple months ago. There hasn't been a significant change in anything since then.

The Chinese will fake anything and everything. Fake peas, fake baby formula, fake coins (even my Amero coins which have nothing to do with over-strikes). They've been counterfeiting things on a steadily-increasing trajectory since 1972 (when Nixon opened things up with China). You'd blame me for that, of course.

And, regarding potential future buyers, what I stated was that it takes a certain amount of knowledge to have the motivation to be willing to pay more money for one coin than another. Anybody with the motivation is going to know what they want and why they want it.

For all you know, many years from now, "Carr" pieces might be highly coveted in the market. No guarantees, of course.

 

So you are not willing to disclose your real name or anything about yourself ?

 

What does "intent to defraud" have to do with this? Carr spells out clearly what he is selling -- and states clearly that it is not legal tender. Who could be defrauded by that, other than someone who can't read?

 

Someone in possession of a coin that they are unfamiliar with. An extremely common and benign situation.

 

There are a couple of reasons:

(1) Others have begun to produce fantasy like coins (not all of them are even overstrikes and may not even be silver) and have begun to parrot his arguments. I do believe that his continued fallacious arguments and the lack of any government action so far are sending the message to others that this is acceptable. The hobby will be flooded with counterfeits and/or non-HPA compliant pieces that may harm collectors in the future.

(2) Under the HPA, it is unlawful to sell a non-HPA compliant piece or to materially aid those that do. People that purchase these pieces may be stuck with them or the pieces might be difficult to sell especially if larger venues like eBay are targeted by the FTC. Collectors have the right to understand the legal issues surrounding the pieces before investing significant amounts of money in them.

This is why I care. Other than my concern that someone will one day be defrauded and a flood of problematic pieces in the hobby, I wouldn't care at all.

P.S. It is amusing that someone who spends time to attempt to achieve an altruistic goal suddenly becomes the numismatic boogey man when I discuss matters that are unpopular. By the end of this thread, every one of you may hate me. I don't care.

 

If you would follow the law, and the Hobby Protection Act specifically, it wouldn't even be an issue. If you marked your pieces as required everyone would leave you alone.

 

No worse than many who come on here daily and ask questions. They find a quarter in change with damage and believe they have found a rare, valuable coin. It is part of the learning process, nothing more. You can not protect everyone from themselves.

In fact I made the same mistakes myself in the past, finding coins which were errors and believing them to be worth a lot. It made me curious and branch out into error coins, far from putting me off coins.

The only person likely to be cheated would be someone who is either dishonest or greedy.

 

I just think @Coinchemistry 2012 is weird..... there, that sums it up.

 

As hated as I am among your supporters, why would I open myself up to death threats or threats of violence? There have already been comments about breaking someone's jaw or tripping an elderly man. Why should I put myself in a position where I could be attacked and be forced to use force that may or may not land me in jail?

Didn't you state that you too received death threats as a result of disagreements over your pieces? It is unacceptable from either/both sides.

 

If others have begun to produce fantasy coins which are not fantasy coins or overstrikes, how can they parrot his argument? Their argument must be different.

Can you come up with a credible argument how someone could be defrauded with no fault from them?

Nobody is hating you, they are arguing their point. It seems you are taking the whole thing emotionally rather than rationally. Which is why I do not see a rational argument against the overstrikes. The Liberty dollars are legal to own, buy, sell, including on eBay.

 

I think you are probably right. I care too much, but that is me.

 

But seriously, this debate needs to die, if Mr. Carr was or is breaking the law, do you or anyone here really believe he'd still be designing/producing pieces and posting on CT if he was?

 

For God sakes, "death threats or threats of violence"? Are you for real? Now this really is taking things way out of proportion and out of context.

 

It is difficult to answer your question and it depends on how "fault" is defined. In a strict/literal sense, you can argue that every person that ever falls for a scam or makes a bad decision deserves what happens to them. There are times, however, when I do think it is appropriate for statutes like the HPA to try to curb fraud. To be clear, I'm not accusing Carr of fraud; however, once he ships the coins, he has no control over the pieces in the secondary market.

On another note, I have no emotional attachment to the responses received here, and am unbothered by criticism of me. What bothers, perhaps to a fault, is that collectors seem blind to the effects of this. You may have been collecting for several years and have forgotten what it is like to be a clueless novice.

 

Even if I never minted a thing, people would still constantly be finding themselves possessing coins that they are unfamiliar with.

 

I am being serious. Carr has stated on other forums that he received death threats, which is absurd. There have been threats of violence against those opposed to his pieces as well. Whether those threats were serious or not is not clear. How do you infer intent from dry internet prose? Often it is difficult.

 

Lol. Lawyers all have a public presence. Your google opinions are exposing you more and more every post

Every criminal law lawyer has been threatened at some point in their career, all you are doing is exposing yourself