Cleaned Talers. Worth Buying?

I am looking at a 1560 Zurich Taler on Heritage Auctions. It is in AU-MS condition, but it is cleaned, and is PCGS Genuine. I have a limited budget ($200), and am wondering if buying this kind of coin is worth it/a good investment.

Thoughts?

The Coin:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/switzerlan...ge-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

 

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Well, problem coins are more affordable. If you're a collector, you need to ask yourself if you will be pleased with your purchase, or if it will bug you every time you look at it. Only you can answer that question. Investment? It's probably scarce, it has that going for it, but no one can predict how coins will perform in the future.
Personally I would choose a lower grade but problem free coin.

 

Personally I don't buy problem coins even though I don't have a big budget. However, if I was going to buy one I would prefer improper cleaning to other problems such as gouges, tooling, filing and so forth. I have to admit that the coin you are considering looks very eye appealing at first glance. Maybe somebody else can chime in but it is my understanding that the European market is less picky about light cleanings. So for investment potential that may work in your favor.

 

Beautiful taler and design but unfortunately the cleaning reduces the potential audience for resale. If investment is your primary objective, I think something like lot 38018 would be a better option (if you don't mind fractional talers).

 

The coin is stunning for it's age. My guess is it was toned black before they cleaned it.

 

I'm fairly certain that even being a cleaned AU details coin, it will take a bit more than $200 to win it. I hope I'm wrong for your sake though

 

That one is known as a "Stampfer thaler" for the designer and mintmaster, Hans Jakob Stampfer. An early example of roller press struck coinage. Several examples came onto the market recently with the sale of the Redwood collection. To acquire a mid 16th century thaler with this level of strike quality for $200 would be a steal. I'm somewhat biased, however -- I bought one of these in the September auction.

 

Problem coins remain problem coins. Don't buy it, particularly not if you're interested in it for investment purposes.

 

thanks for the response @lordmarcovan. I am not going to buy that coin, and I have been looking at coins that fit my price range that aren't problem coins.

 

Good call.

 

FYI: this coin sold for $446.50. Not bad for AU-details.

 

How much would you guys estimate the cleaning hurt it's value.

 

I'd figure $600-$700 if not cleaned

 

I would throw out a figure between $800 and $900 assuming grade between AU-58 and MS-61. Prices were decent for the HA auction of swiss canton material this past week.

 

As Ksorbo said, and I'll expand, the European market wouldn't even bother mentioning the cleaning from what I see. A very nice piece. Within the US mindset a cleaned coin is sub tier as you know. I don't believe personally that it should be considered so. Too many coins out there have been cleaned, toned, re-cleaned and re-toned that it depends on the eye of the beholder. As an investment coin, it won't draw much demand from US collectors or those prone to value TPG judgement. I've heard some traders buying slabbed and reselling unslabbed on the European market to get best prices. From what I can advise is that should you want to keep it because you simply like it - do so. Buying a lesser grade vs a cleaned higher grade is a tough question. If the cleaned higher grade is nicer and the cleaning isn't so in your face, perhaps with a retoning on the way, I'd go with the higher grade most of the time.

 

It is an attractive coin but for my opinion you have better buy a coin "with grade"

 

I have few problem coins and i have always been happy with them. To me if i like the coin and affordable and/or rare, i would not hesitate buying. After all i have limited budget and life is too short to keep postponing to buy the perfect coin
Here is a couple of problem coins i have. First one is a 1748 dutch silver 2 ducatoon ex mount and the second Zurich cirty view thaler was cleaned.

 

This is a cleaned thaler, too. It had far more eye appeal than the straight graded examples of the other Regensberg city view thalers in the same auction.

 

Not strictly a thaler, but a similar sized silver coin, this rouble has one of the most charming portraits of Catherine the Great that I've seen. And it is a details coin (smoothing).