gradeing coins question

some time ago while browsing i read that someone here wrote a book on the subject. said it would answer most questions including strike science. i cant find that thread any help would be great. looking to be able to tell a strong strike from a weak one. mostly washington proofs. i have at least a hundred, and just can't tell. don't know what to look for i guess. search function and i don't seem to get along

 

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I believe you are referring to this book: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-art-and-science-of-grading-coins.412233/

Proof coins are never (or at least shouldn't be) weakly struck. They are struck several times to ensure all parts of the design are sharp.

 

I believe you are talking about the book I wrote. You can find a link in my signature below. I try to explain why coins look the way they do, and how different strikes will appear differently.

The book is designed to explain the theory of grading across all series. I couldn't dive into each coin and their unique characteristics.

After you read the book, please feel free to start threads with your questions. You can also directly message me and I will answer within a couple days.

 

@general quarters , I heartily recommend @physics-fan3.14's book. But, as he said, it won't give you specifics about any particular series. For that, you may need to buy a specialized book. Maybe start with one of the Whitman books?

 

The Whittman red books do give any over all description of grades, it does help.

I still believe that getting your eyes on as many graded coins as possible, is needed to understand how a series is graded.

 

I thought the proof coins were struck twice, on special planchets and with more pressure.

 

thank for the replies, exactly what i was wanting. i do have every washington proof graded. and another almost complete in the raw for clean viewing and study. graded examples is silver are from 62 to 69 mostly 66's. most times on the tpg's are scratched enough to make it a pain.

 

Proof coins are never (or at least shouldn't be) weakly struck. They are struck several times to ensure all parts of the design are sharp.[/QUOTE]

that maybe, but i seem to see differences in some coins and those don't seem to follow the grade. this is why i need to lernt more. in other words why does the pr64 seem better than the pr68

 

that maybe, but i seem to see differences in some coins and those don't seem to follow the grade. this is why i need to lernt more. in other words why does the pr64 seem better than the pr68[/QUOTE]
You would have to show some photos if you can. Other than that later die stages and coins with lite contact, distracting toning or spots are the ones that grade below a PF65.
Photos are definitely needed.

 

Photos are definitely needed.[/QUOTE]
mirror like washingtons are hard to photograph, and i'm not trying to grade or question the already graded coins, but to get a better understanding of the finer points of the art.

 

here is an ugly example (imho). the seller hyped should grade higher.
the ugly seems to have dropped this one about 4 or more points? my newest 36 at a pr64 shows nicely but has a few detractors that bring it down, but i couldn't ask for a better example. this is not the info i'm searching though, but more of the science that may be involved

 

Die states apply to business strikes as well as proofs. I have a chapter in my book that talks about die states and how they appear on coins, based on a thread I wrote many years ago: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/di...ie-from-first-strike-to-terminal-state.59262/

Mid 20th century proofs like you show were often struck well past when the dies should have been retired. The earliest strikes have the nice cameo effect we all love, and as they struck more coins that cameo wore off (like the PCGS example). As the die was used even more, the mirror finish and fine details wore off the die as well (like the ANACS example you show). Judging solely from that picture, the strike and eye appeal are affecting the grade, but I'm sure that contact marks and other detractors are helping to lower the grade as well.

 

excellent!

 

I built a nice set of these many years ago but never bought the 1936. A nice one was more than I could afford.

 

The book you want that will tell you everything you need to know about the Washington Quarter proofs of 1936-1942 (and cents, nickels, dimes and half dollars as well) is:

"United States Proof Coins 1936-1942"
Eightieth Anniversary Edition
Roger W. Burdette
Copyright 2016

Now, I can't speak to Washington Quarter proof strikes but I do know about Walking Liberty half dollar proof strikes. The general comments about weak vs. strong strike and lapping of dies to extend their life as they apply to WL halves also apply to Washington quarters for this period of the Mint's operations, 1936 to 1942.

Note that lapping was done to extend the life of proof dies and it involves essentially grinding the surface of the die with successively finer compounds to restore the polished surface of the fields. Because the fields of the die are lowered in this process, the incuse features of the details closest to the surface of the field are sometimes partially erased.

Here are the obverses of three PCGS PR 67 half dollars. For this purpose, I will talk only about one element of strike assessment and one element of lapping evidence.

The first is dated 1937. Note the Liberty's left hand is fairly well defined but not completely - indicative of only an average strike. But also not Liberty's left hand. See that the palm is missing and the first joint of the index finger is present. The other details of the hand have been lapped off.

Next is dated 1938. The left hand has no definition whatsoever, a very weak strike. But look at the right hand: It has full definition of the palm and index finger indicating that this coin was struck from an early state of the dies, probably before any lapping.

Finally is a 1942. The left hand has slightly better definition than the 1938. I called it Full Strike on my annotation of the coin's image but it's not quite there. The right hand has full definition, indicating an early die state probably before any lapping.

All of these received a PCGS PR 67 grade but they are dramatically different with regard to die state and strike.

I have no doubt that early Washington quarters from the same 1936 to 1942 era suffer from the same anomalies because Burdette speaks at length about them and shows decent photos for each year.

I don't know if a similar reference exists for later quarters but the lessons regarding lapping and strike are universally applicable.

Knowing that these differences exist and what they are for equally graded examples is what makes a connoisseur.

 

My impression is that graders are much tougher on proof coins. They are intended to be carefully struck and handled, so any imperfections are given significant deductions. A PR62 is never as banged up as an MS62 is. Same with Specimen grades.

 

Burdette's book is available at Wizard Coin Supply for $39.95.

https://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/products/proof-set-coin-books/

 

book ordered.

looking forward for this one

 

An excellent book, and I highly recommend it for the specialist. Not a book for a beginner, but it thoroughly describes the history and peculiarities of these coins.

 

all factoids about this era in proof coinage, i find that i want to know about, down to .....well i don't know till i get there. i feel my collection isn't complete without everything i can find out about it. possible it might be above my head but i will get the jist of the topic.