Romaion or Byzantine?

Weeeellll, that one actually is an Indian: http://boards.collectors-society.co...&Words=indian&topic=0&Search=true#Post9605031

 

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Depends on where you look it's actually Lady Liberty. I have several was key collection some 15 years ago.
edited to add-
I'm not going to spend my time to find references of a long ago collection.
All I will say ask someone on the U.S coin forum. I won't argue with most of them.

 

Wow I never knew that. It certainly looks like liberty and the bandana says so too.

 

One of my quick but reliable collector freinds forwarded this link amongst others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Head_cent

 

Maybe I'm being too literal, but that letter states that the head is an ideal represensation of "America" (personified), but that the plumes of the 'Indian' identify America, along with the headband that stands for Liberty. So it actually isn't an Indian head cent, it's an American head cent...

Man, I just seem to be disagreeable in this thread... sorry.

 

The obverse is clearly female but.
I agree this isn't the right forum.
And I appologize it went this far.
I've never been the tuck my head & not say what I believe to be true. If someone wants to argue I'm stuborn enough to push back but I will always admit when & if I'm wrong.
I would appologize for the OP but the OP is the same I'm in disagreement with. But I will appologize to everyone else that I let it get this far.

 

It's all good @Smojo ! I don't think things have gone too far and too unagreeable. My apologies if my criticisms made it seem that way... but I don't think you have anything to apologize for

 

No I am stuborn had this been another thread and another topic I'd probably already have a warning, lol.
This is the one forum I really don't want to be on anyones bad side.

 

I call the coins Roman, but Eastern Roman or Byzantine both work for me.

By·zan·ti·um was an ancient city of Thrace on the site of present-day Istanbul, Turkey. It was founded by the Greeks in the seventh century BC and taken by the Romans in 196 AD. Constantine I ordered the rebuilding of the city in 330 and renamed it Constantinople. It became the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire .... eventually Byzantium. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Byzantion)

I think the answer to the question, "were the folks in 1100 AD Constantinople Roman or Byzantine?" depends on who you ask. You need to look up the work Schism and apply it to the churches in Rome and Constantinople to understand the split.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/eastern-orthodoxy

 

If the term "Byzantine" is good enough for Dumbarton Oaks and for the ANA Museum, it's good enough for me.

 

"... the term Byzantine is totally inappropriate. The term Romaion, which appears on the coins themselves, is far more descriptive of the people of this culture."

"Numismatics permits us to view primary evidence of the past with our own eyes. We read the names of people places and institutions as they were known in the languages and thoughts of the past, unfiltered by the needs and ideologies of later ages"

Wayne G Sayles

 

I don't remember ever hearing the Byzantine empire called the "Romaion" Empire.

---some googling found the term was created by Wayne Sayles in the early 2000's as a replacement for Byzantine.... which failed to catch on...
http://dirtyoldcoins.com/Roman-Coins-Blog/53

---To me reading Romaion sounds like someone misspelled the word Romanian.
--- ill use Byzantine / Eastern Roman / Roman -- or wait for someone to come up with something better..

 

That does it then. If David Sear says it's Byzantine, then it's Byzantine!
And, quite frankly, in 1453 when they were throwing in the towel and consigning themselves to the pages of history, I'm pretty sure that those same Byzantines would have been pretty chuffed to know that intellectual giants of our calibre would still be talking about them 563 years later.

 

Interesting discussion ! I think i prefer "Byzantine" as a label. The main characteristics of a label should be clarity and brevity. Whether a label is historically correct i find not interesting, as long as it is not insulting.
I live in the Netherlands, so the USA citizens among you will likely label me "Dutch". Which is historically totally inappropriate and incorrect. In the same line you name our neighbours "Germans". Over this label we also could have a long discussion. But frankly, nobody here really cares. Calling the eastern Roman empire "Romaion" to me sounds like an unneccesary effort for political correctness so not to hurt the feeling of whom ?
Also there is a problem with clarity. The successors of the "Byzantine" called themselves "The Sultanate of Rome ". Should we call them "Romans" too ? I Prefer "Seljuks of Rum". Historycally possibly less correct, but much clearer.

 

Well, if you look for a follis of Basil I, you will find the reverse legend: ""bASIL / COnStAn / tS LεOn εn / ΘO bASILS / RomεOn" which translates to something like: "Basil, Constans and Leo, Rulers of the Romaion"

 

shouldn't its conquest by rome be 196 bc, not ad?