Why can't IGC and Anacs grade proof cameos?

Another great anomaly! Why is it that ICG and Anacs proof slabs, especially with cameo designations, are almost never graded correctly? Or are they? Could it simply be a stigma or snubbing? Is it on purpose?
Don't get me wrong plenty of horribly overgraded proofs by these two exist. But what gives? These companies have very well respected and competent principals. They certainly have the skill set to grade these right. is it their business plan to overgrade? Is it their niche? Has to be. right? "People prefer high grades to lower ones." "Let's go with the high ones make everyone happy!" Gee whiz, could that be the model?
Certainly they should be able to model their standards to the top tier companies.

Has anyone had a successful crossover of a modern 1950-1970 cameo that originated in slabs from these two?

Thoughts?

 

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What are your numismatic qualifications to make this statement? How long have you been collecting "Cameo" coins. Are you aware that the criteria for this designation has been "evolving." Please show us several examples of what you are implying as I have not noticed this on the scale you are stating for ANY of the TPGS. You may change my mind with enough evidence.

 

No, but I recently got back a couple which are most certainly cameos but wern,t designated as such.

 

They can grade them...in fact, they DO grade them. The fact that your opinion differs from theirs as far as the "correct" grade is a different thing.

Same thing with the two so-called "top tier" TGPs...I quite often disagree with their opinions on particular coins. Doesn't make them wrong--doesn't make me wrong either. Just simply different.

 

Cameo is the biggest bunch of ....ever since most modern proofs come that way. Today, put a "satin blush" on a coin and collectors think it's a DCAM.

Enough talk, let's see pictures.

 

I agree...as far as early 50s proofs go, cameos are so scarce that when I see one with any cameo at all, it jumps out at me. How I view them and how they grade them are quiet different opinions. I assume their standards are a bit tougher than mine, but I think NGC would have graded them differently. Do you think ANACS has tougher grading standards? As of lately, I do.

 

How can anyone grade a proof coin from pictures? Way too many lighting issues. I just compare with other similar coins and then decide. I own many hundreds of graded proofs and there are too many differences in them to count. The older issues are simply very difficult to grade because they,re made from the same methods used in the 1800s, and virtually none are made the same as any other. Each successive strike has less cameo than its prior, and coupled with un-matched die pairs, there are innumerable combinations of cameo strikes, most of which do not make the grade. With poor handling, poor packaging, and poor storage over many years, it,s a miracle that any nice cameos exist at all. As for satisfying my own desires, I will usually settle for my coin to appear cameo, compared to a full brilliant strike, regardless of what the graders designate.

 

WE ARE NOT GRADING THE COIN. We are judging the amount of Cameo. Cameo surfaces show up best in florescent light. The plastic of the slab does not help...anyway I wish the OP would back up HIS opinion.

 

My opinions are just that and only that! I will not accept any JUDGEMENTS as useful opinions...keep them to yourself! By the way, I highly respect the OPINIONS of many on this site, but as for a very few, I can do without the disrespect!

 

What disrespect? How old are you? This entire site is about opinions and judgements. You yourself made judgements on your coins. That's fine they are your coins.

I'll remind you that the OP made some statements. I challenged him. He is silent.

Obviously, You don't get the fact that I AGREE WITH most of what you have posted.

 

Having a bad day?

 

Back from walking the dog...about 4 miles a day...I,ve always been a little offended by the word "judgement", but as for my 45 years of collecting, I,ve developed certain opinions about grading services, which did not exist when I started collecting. As for my picture taking abilities, my equipment is not currently functional, but hopefully will be soon. I thought I was only giving my opinions about the thread topic but didn,t realize I,d crossed the line into judgement territory. My sincere apology for offending you with improper word choice again. By the way, I,m 66, how old are you?

 

can you show us pics of the cameo coins you are trying to cross over ? I realize that there are different stages of cameo too. I have always wanted a very deep cameo frosted white franklin half with mirror fields, but the prices have sky rocketed on them. so I will buy other world coins on my want list.

 

oh ok, when you get your camera working again. your TGP questions are interesting to me. I had seen some deep cameo Morgan dollars that took my breath away. the sticker shock was there too . lol I think GDJMSP knows what he is talking about. He has the experience to know about it. I have a question myself about cameo designations. Do you need to tell/ask them to put the cameo designation on the slab itself if it is truly a cameo coin ? and does it cost extra to have them put a cameo/deep cameo designation on the slab itself ?

 

GDJMSP finished with this: "But even with all of that said, yes it is the market's opinion that ANACS and ICG are not the equals of NGC and PCGS - in a general sense."
I should add in every sense (market opinion) and that's too bad.

Your post #12 deserves a best answer. New thread: Should Doug get a best answer or is he too old or too smart?

Not offended, just extremely surprised at your reaction. BTW, I don't ask a lady her age.

 

My opinions are obviously formed by my experiences. I'm at work. I have too many examples of failed crossovers to mention. My observations are of MY COINS, not yours. Sheesh. I'm guessing my experiences are not an anomaly. I'm a serious collector of high grade modern 1950-1970 proofs with cameo designations. Apparently I must show pictures??? Here are some.
None of these crossed to pcgs. I suspect reasons more of a cameo issue than PR numerical grade. Maybe both as I set min to PR67 cam for 55 and 59 franklins.

 

Chascat. Well said. I think your entire post is 100%. Yes, even your observations where anacs may be tougher these days. I think they must be overcompensating. Top tier 2 seem to be tightening there standards as well.

 

Less i be judged.. Their standards. Little grammatical error.