Does this look authentic? Seated liberty dollar

Hi all. I'm watching this coin on eBay from a relatively new seller. Does it look real to you guys?

 

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Next time, please post photos as Full Size Image. I'm afraid I don't know these well enough to spot fakes but it looks like a problem coin to me so I would probably pass on this one.

 

Run not genuine Imo

 

The denticles look off to me. They should be separated but appear to be webbed. That and the wear doesn't seem even to me. But again, I don't know this series.

 

nope

 

is that a seam on the outer edge of the rim?

 

I am inclined to think it genuine, although as has been mentioned the surfaces may not be original. Here's why:

Dick Osburn and Brian Cushing have codified the die pairs of Seated Dollars. Their work has been published online:

http://www.seateddollarvarieties.com/index.shtml

1847 has 4 die pairs recorded. The coin here is a good match for OC-1, the first die pair noted.

http://www.seateddollarvarieties.com/1847-OC1.shtml

The date location is correct. The reverse shows appropriate pickups for the one paired with that obverse - the die crack over the top of UNITED which, to the extent I can see, is a match for the one known. More importantly, the coin shown here seems to have the extended vertical stripe in the shield. Here's a detail from the image posted above:



Here's a decent Heritage result for this die pair in MS63:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dol...-98778.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Keep in mind, these die cracks progressed over the life of the die, and the Heritage coin is a later state than the one here.

I do not see counterfeiters even knowing to fake that die line in the shield, much less faking it correctly with their limited technology. For that reason, I'm inclined to think this coin genuine.

 

Relatively new seller + no slab = look elsewhere (at least for me).

 

Is it just me or does the flan on the reverse look too large?

 

Cleaned but genuine.

 

That is a great analysis, SuperDave.
Thank you for your dedication and for the link to the Seated Dollar Site.

 

Well if it is a good die transfer, then details like die cracks would also be transferred to a counterfeit.

I think this coin is genuine, but harshly cleaned. Most here just assume counterfeit if given any bit of doubt (not that it is a bad thing. It is good for protecting yourself as a buyer, but not helpful to those trying to learn when a genuine coin is called fake).

 

Some people have their minds set on this being a counterfeit, and are seeing what they want to see to condemn this coin.

That lip on the reverse rim was caused by a misangled die (MAD). If you notice, the right side of the reverse is slightly better-struck than the left side, as one would expect from a MAD strike.

 

That is a line caused by a compass when tracing out where the denticles would be. Perfectly normal.

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/seated-liberty-dollars-pscid-47/1847-s1-ms-coinid-16934

 

Understood. It's just my judgement that the level of detail (especially the line in the shield) is such that a transfer die is highly unlikely. It would be nice if I were right all the time, but I'm not so take me with a grain of salt.

 

Genuine but cleaned.

 

After looking on a larger screen (not my phone) the reason I said not genuine was the E in liberty on the shield, but I see it was just a well placed hit. I couldn't even see the die crack that was there.

 

"Relatively new seller".... overall or just to eBay or a certain venue? One can be "new" to eBay (as an example) yet have years to decades experience with coins and/or dealing them. I'm certainly not saying it should be ignored, but only that looks can sometimes be deceiving, and is why it is sometimes worth digging a little deeper.

 

The fabrique of the coin looks good overall.

It appears to have been whizzed or at least, very heavily cleaned in some way.

I would buy it if it walked in my store.

 

Fair point! I just sold my first ever item on eBay a couple of weeks ago.