This cast bronze, Ramo Secco, bar is 30 mm wide at the top and 40 mm wide at the base. It is about 30 mm thick, but the top part is only 10 mm thick. Length is about 50 mm. One end looks like it could have been the end of the casting, but it is likely that the bar was broken on both ends. Weight = 128 grams. top view, you can see the branch pattern on this piece end view, the bar has two different diameters, 30 mm for the top layer and 40 mm for the bottom layer Side view RAMO SECCO Fragment Cast bronze from Central Italy 4th to 3rd century BC Top – branch without leaves Thurlow-Vecchi AS1 Another recent piece is the Aes Formatum on the right. It 58 grams and 80 mm long.
NICE JOB @rrdenarius ! They look great! I know it is getting harder to get these now. Congrats on that great looking Ramo Secco!
I am so jealous...what a wonderful find!! I have been looking for a ramo secco I could afford that shows the branches, and yours does, good job!! I saw those aes formatum for sale and passed since I was unsure, such an unusual shape, more stylized than other aes formatum shapes I have seen. Can you tell me any more about them? I can't find that shape in any of my references. Do you have a reference for them, or provenance?
I am not sure this is a normal RS bar. There is not enough here to define the pattern. I can see one well defined line at a diagonal to the sides of the bar. I can a weak second line that would make a flattened W pattern. A RS bar should have a line down the center of the bar. I think GM called it RS because that was the closest description. Their picture looks like an Aes Rude to me. I did not get a provenance with the piece. I did get a letter saying it was exempt from import restrictions into the USA. I see similar bar shapes in Garrucci on table VI, #5-8. The bar on plate IX, #2 has single line at a diagonal. It is a lot easier to find items in Garrucci because I have the book. GM gives a reference in Haeberlin, but I do not find a plate with that number in my PDF copy. Hope you find one soon.
Can you explain what I'm looking at? What I see is a lump of slag (especially the one in the last post), but I'm sure that's not it. What are these things?
@physics-fan3.14 .... AES Monies of Central Italia: Early Evolution of Roman Coinage... Central Italia and Early Rome used BRONZE as their main currency. They were cruder than the Greek Silver currencies. AES RUDE: Italia Aes Rude - bronze ca 5th-4th Century BCE 29.7mm 32.4g AES FORMATUM: ITALIA Aes Formatum AE Bronze Ax Head ca 5th-4th C BCE sextans size 44.8mm 56g Oscan-Latin Aes Formatum shell with Ribs obv-rev 4th BCE Oscan-Latin Aes Formatum shell 25mm 12.8g AES SIGNATUM: @rrdenarius Ramo Secco falls in here AES GRAVE: Etruria or Umbria Aes Grave 3rd C BCE Sextans 23mm 25.15g Club-2 Dots HN 54 Vecchi-Th 172 RR AE Aes Grave Sextans 270 BCE 37mm 55.28g Dioscuri R and L RR 280-276 BCE Anon Aes Grave Triens Thunderbolt-Dolphin Rome Rev-IN HAND Crawford 14/3 Thurlow Vecchi 3
Fascinating, thanks! So what were the rudes? Were they just lumps of bronze? How can you distinguish that they are proto-coins (as opposed to random, and/or natural, lumps of metal)? And why did they use these rude lumps of metal, when coin artistry was already far more advanced in the Greek lands? What sort of denomination were these things (had they invented the idea of denominations yet, or was it all based on weight?) What distinguishes an aes signatum from an aes formatum? They both seem relatively similar to me - crude lumps with some form of devices. When were the aes graves made? Were they cast or struck? When did struck coinage begin? (and when did cast coinage end?) I'll admit I'm new to the ancient word, but it seems like ~150 BC is when I start to see Republic (struck) coinage?
There was a previous post that may answer some of your questions. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/cast-bronze-sextans-aes-formatum-anyone.282150/#post-2486929
I have a longer description of cast money (and pre-money) here: http://rrdenarius.blogspot.com/2015/12/aes-money-from-republican-rome-and.html I think the Romans in 650 - 400 BC (when Greek cities and colonies started minting coins) did not have a source of precious metals (mines or trade). They were a subsistence farming community that had a volunteer army for protection and to obtain supplies when times were bad. They did not pay their army until the 10 year siege of Veii, 405 - 396 BC. They did not start minting silver coins until the first Punic war, 264 - 241 BC. As Rome expanded they obtained gold and silver from spoils, tribute and captured mines to pay for a standing army (their Legions). I have no way of knowing if the Aes Rude I buy are real or just good fakes. I have researched the subject in books and on line. I buy from sources I trust. I do not think there was a difference in crude bronze lumps that bronze age societies used and the Aes Rude called Roman (and Central Italian) pre-money.
