New Daniel Carr Morgan Dollar

They try and do everyday on the hill

 

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The State made it legal not the Feds , so the Feds can come in at any time and enforce federal law if it so wishes. Ask all the people pulled over just outside of the state line that's being searched and arrested for its contraband. Why won't banks take the money from such dispenseries,?

 

There are people over at CU who have been reporting him with such regularity they're probably now considered cranks by the authorities.

 

Longest... thread... EVER...

 

Are you speculating that people on the PCGS boards have contacted the U.S. Secret Service or do you know of actual complaints for a fact?

 

The only "actual complaint" I have any specific information on - and it's a pretty famous complaint in other venues, surprised you don't know about it - is Roger Burdette's ANA complaint, which was adjudicated in Carr's favor. The ANA found no cause to discipline Carr for his work. That was two years ago.

There's no doubt in my mind that Burdette - a man who has surrendered all the considerable respect I once held him in - holds a grudge vicious enough to have continued pursuing it through official channels. You should read some of the near-irrational hatred he spews in public about Dan Carr, stuff which wouldn't fly even in this relatively laissez-faire forum. Actually, here, read it for yourself:

http://www.moonlightmint.com/burdette_rebuttal_post.htm

There are "regular folks" like you and myself who hold differing opinions, and attempt to discuss those opinions with reasonable civility despite our disagreement, and then there are people like Burdette. He combines sheer hatred with sufficient numismatic reputation to be paid attention to at higher levels just because of his name, and he's not the only such enemy Carr has over at CU, where some pretty big players hang out. Frankly, if they haven't been able to take him down over years of activity, I suspect it either can't or won't be done.

Conspiracy theory: A rather strong case can be made that Carr's work is in the best interest of established numismatic economic powers, as a result of the extensive dialog and generalized collector purchasing interest it generates....

 

I know for a fact that RWB hasn't filed a complaint with the secret service against him, and his only reporting so far has been the ANA complaint you reference. I know because I specifically asked him if he was aware of any official government complaints/inquiries having been filed against Carr, and he indicated that he was not aware of any.

Carr is controversial and many people dislike him and his works. I do not, however, think the majority of those individuals dislike him enough to try to initiate a criminal prosecution; however, Carr's threats of frivolous libel lawsuits in previous threads here and elsewhere could change that in the future. If Carr were ever to sue a member, for instance, I'm sure things would change very quickly.

 

I will take your word on that - you don't strike me as someone who would speak with such certainty without actually having the right to - and stand rather surprised. If you think so poorly of someone's efforts as to file a complaint with the "official" arbiter industry/hobby standards of conduct, isn't it somewhat a moral compromise to decide, "Hey, I've called it blatantly illegal and called him a counterfeiter for years in public venues, but I'm not gonna carry through and do what a gentleman should do when confronted with a crime?"

The only way to fight is to the finish. Otherwise, you don't belong fighting at all.

 

Unless you change your position. There are things I fought for decades ago, but later realized I was misguided. Having said that, Burdette's loss may leave a bitter taste in his mouth. One that in all likelihood, will never go away. IMO, he would have had a better chance if he did the following:
1. Never posted praise of DC when he first discovered his work
2. Never made it personal with his comments
3. Never posted childish attacks

Having said that, Carr, bordered on getting childish in his retort when he tried to turn the tables, citing again and again Burdette's irrelevant "hatred of cats." lol

 

Brazen written assaults such as those quickly turn a person with a legitimate concern into a nut job in the eyes of those with authority to take action.

 

There has been no shortage of pettiness on either side.

 

They say flattery will get you everywhere....

I can say with great confidence that every one of us on the opposite side of this issue, or at least those who actually discuss as opposed to tossing an insult prior to disappearing, can certainly respect your position. If you like and see no problem with them, that's fine. I've told Mr. Carr repeatedly that I greatly respect his entrepreneurial spirit and even his dedication to craftsmanship, but to me there are greater issues here and that is right and wrong, illegal or legal, and perhaps most importantly, the double standard. Think of how often it is claimed that they're not copies. Now take a look at Mr. Carr's own website, or even past threads here in which he labels the same thing made by others as being "fake" and/or "copies", even if there is no direct or implied connection to him. How can his not be copies or fakes due to the argument that the exact same thing never existed, but those produced by others are? He's claimed his "signature is the date" yet turns around and claims no ownership of the date; does this, especially when coupled with the aforementioned, honestly make sense to you? You've shown yourself to be a very intelligent fellow with the willingness to think and question for the greater good, Evan; don't bother answering/responding to me or the board, but do so to and for yourself.

If someone else, be it an American or not, started pumping the same thing out using the same choice of planchets, would you be okay with this? In particular let's say this person was Asian; would that make a difference? This to me is key. It's less about liking or disliking Mr Carr or what he does, but applying the same standards across the board. If okay for him it's okay for anyone and everyone else too, but I would put money on the fact that of such a thing was to happen, a great majority of the fans would erupt in furor making every excuse imaginable as to why it's not the same. Think about it and come to your own conclusion.

 

Agree with this.

 

If they are of the same quality of his work crafted by a highly respected artist, Asian or any other, then yes I and many others would buy one. If they were crude designs or even great designs, done en mass and "pumping them out" simply using authentic coins as planchets then no I and many others would not. It goes well beyond the material. It's also, to a greater degree, about the artistry and craftsmanship.

 

If people on the opposing side of Daniel Carr's overstrikes are so adamant about their legality, why don't they file a formal complaint rather than spending so much time on the boards? No one on the boards are going to have the final word about the legality or if D Carr's operation should cease. All it makes me do is want to buy more.

 

Because I just want DC to do the right thing and sign all his work because he decides to. It's always better when the guilty party decides to correct their error on their own, instead of having their hand forced.

 

In all due respect my friend, Carr has a legal stand -- one I cannot believe he has taken without consulting with able legal counsel -- and is only a guilty party if he receives an adverse legal ruling.

 

That's a lot of assumptions. All I'm expressing is my hope that he will one day make the decision to sign his work.

 

And if he refuses, as the past 6-7 years have shown he has, is this your recourse? It's like a bunch of yippy dogs nipping at pant legs.

 

I don't get your analogy. But anyway... my recourse? All I'm willing to do is consistently speak my message and hope DC comes around. I have a right to do that and I choose to continue to do so. If some one else wants to force the issue beyond that, then that's great. But me? I hope DC just comes around to reason and starts signing his work.