Got some really small Tetartemorions

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by cmezner, May 30, 2024.

  1. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Thought to expand my usual area of interest - actually it was my husband who said that there are no really small coins in the collection. So he chose these ones and I went to HJB to pick them up:) (of course I also looked through the pick bin and ended up with 6 more coins that I have to research, that will be fun - no idea what they are):

    Caria, Mylasa, AR Tetartemorion ca. 390 – 380 BC, Hecatomnus;
    0.13g.
    Klein 507; SNG Tübingen 3312; Konuk, Identities 5-6 and Pl. 1.5- 1.6; SNG Keckman 849.
    Obv: Head of Apollo facing slightly left.
    Rev.: Head of roaring lion to l.

    upload_2024-5-30_19-43-12.png

    Ionia, Ephesus; ca. 500-420 BC, Tetartemorion,
    0.16g. SNG Kayan-126; Klein 370.
    Obv: Bee.
    Rev.: Eagle's head to r.
    cc79613.jpg
    Caria, Mylasa; 5th century BC, Tetartemorion
    0.18g.
    Obv: Head of roaring lion to left
    Rev.: Bird standing l. within incuse square

    cc88441.jpg

    Ionia, Colophon; ca. 450-410. BC, Tetartemorion
    0.33g. Milne-31.
    Obv: Head of Apollo to r.
    Rev: TE monogram in incuse square

    cc92506.jpg

    All pictures courtesy HJB

    Please share your really tiny coins or anything you deem relevant:)
     
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  3. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    Great "tiny coins". I just started collecting these small fraction denominations last year, here are a few in my collection. Quick note, the coin you have listed as "Caria, Mylasa" is actually Ionia, Miletos minted Late 6th – Early 5th Century BC. These coins are commonly listed as Caria, Mylasa at auctions.

    lot 283.jpg
    Province, City: Ionia, Miletos
    Denomination: AR Trihemitartemorion
    Mint: Miletos (Late 6th – Early 5th Century BC)
    Obverse: Forepart of a roaring lion right, head to left
    Reverse: Eagle standing left; two pellets, one above and one below; all within incuse square
    References: SNG Kayhan 941 (Mylasa); SNG Tubingen 3001

    LOT 221.jpg
    Province, City: Ionia, Miletos
    Denomination: AR Trihemitartemorion
    Mint: Miletos (Late 6th – Early 5th Century BC)
    Obverse: Head of a roaring lion right
    Reverse: Eagle standing right; two pellets, one above and one below; all within incuse square
    References: Klein 432; SNG Kayhan 947 (Mylasa); SNG Keckman 922

    lot 108.jpg
    Province, City: Aeolis (Aiolis), Kyme (Cyme)
    Denomination: AR Tetartemorion
    Mint: Kyme (Cyme) (480 – 450 BC)
    Obverse: Head of horse, left; astragalos below
    Reverse: Stellate floral pattern with eight petals within round incuse
    References: Unpublished (left); BMCG -; SNG Cop -; SNG von Aulock -; Klein -; SNG Kayhan -

    lot 137.jpg
    Province, City: Ionia, Miletos
    Denomination: AR Trihemiobol
    Mint: Miletos (Late 6th – Early 5th Century BC)
    Obverse: Forepart of lion left, with head turned back and open jaws
    Reverse: Stellate pattern within incuse square
    References: SNG von Aulock 2081; SNG Kayhan 476-482

    lot 123.jpg
    Province, City: Ionia, Miletos
    Denomination: AR Trihemiobol
    Mint: Miletos (Late 6th – Early 5th Century BC)
    Obverse: Forepart of lion right, with head turned back and open jaws
    Reverse: Stellate pattern within incuse square
    References: SNG von Aulock 2082; SNG Kayhan 476-482
     
  4. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Thank you so much for your correction.

    I only checked the attribution of the first two Tetartemorions (Apollo / Lion; Bee/Eagle's head), for the last two I just copied the attribution written on the coinflip.
     
  5. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    They are almost always listed that way which makes it more difficult to attribute.
     
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  6. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    I'm confused, which one do you mean? The Apollo/Lion or the Lion/Bird?:confused:
     
  7. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

  8. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    The lion / eagle. The city attribution varies depending on who you reference; most dealers just list it as Caria, Mylasa. However I personally believe it is Ionia, Miletos based on the lions style. But then again I'm no scholar nor expert.
     
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  9. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, here is another article. https://rjohara.net/coins/lion-bird/ The author, Dr. Robert J. O'hara describes it as "Milesian-Style Lion" and attributes it to Miletus (Miletos) referencing older publications from the 1960's and 1980's. However he does include a footnote regarding SNG Kayhan and his belief that these coins should be attributed to Mylasa and not Miletos. Depending on where you purchase it I have seen it described as Ionia, Miletos / Ionia, Miletos (Mylasa) / Ionia, Miletos (uncertain) / Caria, Mylasa. So I guess you will just have to pick which ever attribution you prefer. Are you confused yet, I know I am.
     
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  10. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Just read the article at rjohara.net - and yes, I'm also confused. Given that there is no certainty, I will use both in my description: Ionia, Miletos (uncertain) / Caria, Mylasa.:cool:
     
  11. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    There are also bronze coins with this Head of Lion/bird design. In an article by Richard Aston at: http://www.royalnumismaticsociety.org/NC_Offprints/NC166/NC166_01_Ashton.pdf

    there is the legend MILA ; according to him, on page 5,: "Despite the aberrant form of the ethnic (perhaps the transliteration of the name from Karian to Greek in this early period had not yet been standardised), there seems little doubt that the attribution is sound, and it seems likely that this bronze issue succeeded a fairly common series of anepigraphic silver fractions with similar types, which can therefore now be attributed to Mylasa with reasonable confidence: see SNG Kayhan 940-948, where Konuk (foreshadowed in part by Six 1890, pp. 231-2) has already suggested a probable attribution of the silver fractions to Mylasa, without spelling out his reasons".
     
  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Cool little things. SO tiny!

    This is presently my smallest (~9mm), and oldest.

    IMG_8563.jpeg IMG_8564.jpeg
     
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Here's another 9mm tiny I used to own.

    Mysia, Lampsakos diobol, ca. 4th-3rd century BC. Great design.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I used to have one of those Miletos lions, too. Cool little coins. I paid $26 for this one, so the slab it eventually went into cost more than the coin!

    IMG_8565.png
     
  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  15. -monolith-

    -monolith- Supporter! Supporter

    That is the issue, "without spelling out his reasons". Kayhan himself couldn't definitively state they were from Mylasa; that's why he has the identification listed as "Mylasa ?". The sideways facing head of lion design is identified on multiple styles of coins, all with very similar stylistic designs. They were all previously attributed to Miletos, but now there seems to be a lot of confusion after Kayhan released his doctorial paper regarding these coins.

    keckman 837-840 - kayhan 835.jpg
    Listed as both Caria, Mylasa and Ionia, Miletos
    Keckman 837-840; Kayhan 835

    lot 137.jpg
    Ionia, Miletos (definitively minted in this city)
    Kayhan 476-482

    keckman 925 - kayhan 939 - klein 431.jpg
    Listed as both Caria, Mylasa and Ionia, Miletos. The stylistic appearance of the lions head is almost identical between the 3 coins. Could it be possible that these coins, with the bird on the reverse, were minted at both cities?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2024
  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    The name of the Island Ortygia originates from the Ancient Greek órtyx (ὄρτυξ), which means "quail". The shape of the island certainly resembles a quail (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ortygia).
    Ortygia, according to Strabo, was an old name of Delos, the place were Apollo and Artemis were born after being conceived in Didyma a few kilometers from Miletos. Ortygia was considered the island of Artemis the goddess of quails, giving a connection to Miletos; don't know if there is a connection for Mylasa apart that it was the capital city of the Hekatomnids.
    The silver and bronze issues are strongly related; the bronze issue was introduced in Asia Minor ca. 400 BC; the tetartemorioi can also be dated to 420 – 390 BC, which is the date given by Konuk. Wouldn't it be possible that the bronze issues had been introduced after the silver issues (the ratio Silver/Bronze was 1:100 according to Konuk) to use bronze coinage for paying the troops in a time when Persian succession wars were fought in Asia Minor?

    Without new research, it seems that the question about Miletos or Mylasa is still open.
     
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