Are they ancient or modern grafitto?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Herberto, May 8, 2024.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Those two coins here are not mine, but try to take a hard look at the grafitto:


    Look at the "EV" on the obverse right to Anastasius:
    3.jpg


    Look at the "III X" on the reverse at the bottom:
    1.JPG


    Is it possible to know wheather they are ancient or modern grafitto?

    Thanks :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2024
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  3. YOTHR

    YOTHR Active Member

    Most of the graffiti on ancient gold coins are actually of ancient origin. They usually also have a specific meaning - even if many of them are unknown.

    There are also scientific studies on this.

    https://www.materiale-textkulturen.de/teilprojekt.php?tp=A11&up=
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2024
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I don’t think there’s any scientific way to determine whether a graffito is ancient or modern? But in most cases, on an ancient gold coin, I would tend to suspect it is legitimately ancient.

    After all, who in modern times would deliberately scratch an ancient gold coin and reduce its value, right?

    Unless the graffiti said something like “Kilroy was here”, or “The Beatles are Fab”, of course… ;)
     
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  5. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Oh, thank you so much for the replies. It makes completly sense.

    3.jpg

    I'm also suspecting that the "E" at Anastasius might be a greek epsilon due to what appear to be a "curve" line. Like this 5 nummi which also has epsilon on the reverse:

    epsilon.png
     
  6. YOTHR

    YOTHR Active Member

    I think the EV is ancient - it also looks like an older Epsilon. I'll have a look through my literature at the weekend - I think I once saved a PDF publication. I hope I remember me correctly :)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2024
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  7. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Well, you dont have to look at your literature as I just wanted a short answer. :)
     
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  8. YOTHR

    YOTHR Active Member

    No, now it has also aroused my own interest :D
     
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  9. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    If it had "LM" scratched on it, we'd know a certain "Lord" was the ruler, at the time. ;)
     
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  10. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I would think that it’s on the modern side as in the mid to late 1800’s, when gold circulated, carving one’s initials into a coin was normal. It was also a way to give them to your girlfriend. I do not know of any way to tell the difference.
     
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  11. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I did have a US gold dollar love token (and another one on a Seated dime) that had “LM” engraved on the coin! :)
     
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  12. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    That could be- I had a 1714 British Guinea of Queen Anne once, which had an initial carved below the bust.

    But I still don’t think there were a whole lot of Roman solidi circulating in commerce in the 18th or 19th centuries. Even back then, such ancients likely got a little more respect than the gold that was circulating at the time.

    So it’s not impossible that the graffiti was done in a more modern era (in the last 200-300 years or so), but I do think it’s unlikely. I think the idea that this graffiti is ancient is a fairly safe assumption.
     
  13. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    No expert on ancient gold, but I do know a little about ancient Greek script. It is possible the inscription is not EV but epsilon upsilon. We think of an upsilon as more like a Y, with a longer stem, but handwriting varies with the centuries, and at times the stem is short. Compare it with the U in ANASTASIUS just above it, which is Latin but may have influenced the Greek. If this is the case, it could possibly be EU, which is Greek for "good" (used as a prefix in many English words--eulogy, euphemism, etc). Might it then be a merchant's mark who has weighed and tested the gold and found it acceptable?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2024
  14. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    I have no idea, of course, but that seems plausible enough to me.
     
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  15. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    It resembles a Tau, to me.
     
  16. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I wonder what the LM stood for. :woot:
     
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