1956 Roo, Edge Damage

Anyone have any ideas of what may have caused this. It doesn't look like PSD to me.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

It's just damage. We could guess all day as to what caused it. It did not come from the mint looking like that.

 

Then what does it look like to you?

 

I'm not sure, that is why I asked. Close ups of the damage shows clean lines with no movement of the metal or scratches typical of something striking it post mint. There is metal missing but it shows no sign of cutting, tearing or clipping which leads me to believe it wasn't PSD but as usual I could be wrong.

 

IMO, the clue is this: The mark on the reverse is a cut, while the mark on the obverse is "pushed down into the coin." I know of nothing during production that could do that to a coin but my garage is full of things. An remember, the damage does not need to be "man-made."

 

Tin snips, file, vise grip, pliers, etc., etc., etc. It's PMD. It did not leave the mint looking like that.

 

I do agree that on the reverse it looks cut although "Cut" is not the term that I would use. It has taken some time to review this coin and come up with a way to explain why I don't think that it is PSD so bear with me. First I would like to say that this coin has been around for 50 years so I am not saying that it hasn't had some abuse over the years. My point is to the root of the damage and when it may have occurred.

First, Look at the picture below. It is a close up of the Reverse showing that the two surfaces are in fact perpendicular to each other. The walls show hairline striations perpendicular to the face which is typical of being sheared not cut. These same striations appear when any metal has been punched in a press, the first 50%-80% (depending on composition) of depth being clean and the remaining 20%-50% being rough from breaking. This coin does reflect the same features as I just described and although not impossible to do in someone's home its probably not likely.



This next picture is to give a visual of both sides of the coin and the orientation of the damage. I don't have the tools to do an overlay so this will have to do, sorry! It also shows (In Red) the curvature of the die strike hasn't been disrupted as well as some missing material (Shaded in red) that would be near about impossible to do without disrupting the rim. The other comments I will explain in another picture.



This next picture is the root of most of my non PSD suspicions. If you look at the edges of the damage on both the Obverse and Reverse, they show the metal pushed out beyond the missing material creating a ledge. To me that indicates that the material was missing prior to the die striking the planchet. Please note this ledge does not appear on the rim of this coin, which further strengthens my theory. I think we already agree that the material was removed from the Reverse side, so also note that these close ups reflect what I explained on a previous picture of shearing. The Reverse is a clean perpendicular cut with downward striations indicative of shearing and the Obverse is somewhat jagged indicative of tearing or breaking.



This next picture is mostly to give you another perspective and to show how metal has been removed and/or moved.



To clarify, I do understand that on the Obverse something was pushed into the coin dividing and moving metal to an area that was void of material. My question is what comes first, the chicken or the egg! It appears to me that first either metal was removed or a planchet with a snippet missing was used prior to going through the upsetter. Next would be the head scratcher, something being pushed into the coin coincidentally at the very location of this missing material. Last the coin being struck. I do realize the complexity it would take for that sequence of events to have happened but I am just following the evidence.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

Wow.. you really spent a lot of time and effort to show us all of your observations.. impressed

I think about coins that I have or have seen that are faulty planchets or cracked planchets.
There are a few different kinds.. Who knows, could be one of those instances.
here is one from my collection -

 

It's damage from after it left the mint. It's that simple. It was not made that way. Please take some time and study the minting process. If you do you will understand.

 

DITTO every opinion except the OP's!

As they would be with a number of tools when the coin was damaged after it was struck.

Ditto above.

Which does not happen at any stage during the minting process.

Those are my thoughts, and I'm sticking to them.

 

I am fully aware of the minting processes and have for many, many years! I've seen the process first hand on many occasions, have you?

Hand held or shop tools will not be perfectly perpendicular to each other and will not look like sheared metal. Those tools would make a concaved cut not straight and they also leave tool marks not striations like when the metal is being compressed and pushed apart.

The punching press used to make the planchets is in fact a shearing machine which is part of the minting process. Did you ever hear of an "Assay Clip". I'm not suggesting that this is one but it is possible to have this done during minting.

 

Well, you forced me to break my silence. To answer your question, six times on the floor (2 Denver, 4 Philly - three times not on some silly group tour ).

Next, I'm curious. You seem to be an "Ex-Pert," why ask us what happened to the dime?

Guess you have a real rare Mint error. Maybe even an "assay clip" or perhaps the pressman used the planchet to tighten a screw after it was struck.
PS the blanking press shears the metal at ninety degrees.

Get Real. Many of us have been around the block a few times. We LOVE unusual GENUINE coins. The members answering you (not me) are pretty savvy and have seen it all or at the least most of it. It gets real old when a collector refuses to accept the obvious and starts dreaming up possibilities like ASS AY CLIP.

 

Sheesh.. Has anyone read or considered my explanation a few posts ago?

 

I'm a bit new at all this. Only 50 years of learning it. Good luck with your rare find.

 

Sure but it is not a match. Note the damage is beyond what the collar would allow.
The coin is no longer round.

 

Sorry, No. Planchet flaws look completely different. Inside the flaw is frosty (weak strike frost) and original and they do not show shearing.

 

That's Great! That comment wasn't directed at you but thanks for sharing. BTW, I have never taken some silly group tour in my life and I have traveled the world and seen many things, that's not who I am!

I never said that I am an expert (yeah I get your "Ex-Pert" thing), what I said is that it doesn't look like PSD to me and clearly stated why.

I didn't say it is!

That is exactly what I said before this back and forth got started, I suggest you read my comments a little better. I spent a lot of time to be sure I worded things so everyone would understand but yet here we are.

This is why I posted this here, looking for honest information from people that has been around the block. Most of what I received was a quick dismissal of "I cant explain or haven't seen it so it is PSD". I haven't seen but one person offer any form of explanation other than just saying "PSD". Its funny because that is a beat up coin that even if it is some rare mint error I'm sure it wouldn't be worth much but people are acting like I think I just found the "Holy Grail". I posted this here mostly as a curiosity. My collection is just that "Mine" I've been doing this since my first Silver Dollar hit my hand back when they were still in circulation, I seek no notoriety with the collection or in finding "The Perfect Coin". I don't dream up anything, it was a reference and I pointed that out earlier. I am not refusing anything and what is obvious to me will not be the same for you. Coins are a hobby to me so besides minting I posses a lot experience and knowledge with metals as well as deconstruction and reconstruction of post accident industrial investigations which has led to my analogy so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

This is exactly what I was talking about. I covered this in an earlier comment along with a picture. I took the time to show you that the coin is still round and also pointed out that it is 50 years old and has some PSD. What is protruding outside of the round is a result of PSD. Please read more carefully before making negative comments like this.

 

Oh. I forgot to add this to my post#13...send the "gem" to PCGS or NGC and I'll be glad to eat crow - one of my favorite foods!
Good Luck and Goodbye.

 

I was not talking to you. I was quoting someone else. I did read every word you posted but there was nothing positive that I could say about it. It's all just damage and you will never be able to know for sure what caused the damage. Don't get mad at those with a different opinion.
It's clear that your mind is closed and you know that this is an error coin. I wish you luck. I'll also be waiting to here what a major grading service has to say.