Just got a Wang Mang knife coin!

Well, part of one that is. But since I paid next to nothing for it, I'm not complaining. You can occasionally find the round head separated from the blade (I have my eye on one from the same seller), but you almost never find the blade itself. The head was often cut off to be made as a charm or a smaller denomination, or just to spite Wang Mang's coinage itself.

This coin was excavated from a Wang Mang hoard in an ancient Chinese canal.

This was a value-500 (Wu Zhu) coin. The entire inscription would have read "Qi Dao Wu Bai," but only "Wu Bai" (500) are visible. Wang Mang used this coin, and the much-rarer value-5000 coin, to eradicate the wealth of the nobility, a move which, in turn, destroyed the economy of China and caused a third of China's population to die of starvation.



Here is an intact specimen I'm eying for comparison.

 

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nice!

 

+1

 

So, this the "Key" money? I looked at these to further build my Chinese Cast... Nice capture!

 

Yes, this is "Key" money. But since the inscription on the coins explicity says "Dao," or "knife," I call them knife coins. People in China call them knife coins. But the terms are interchangeable.

 

neato...i've got some wang mang coins.

WANG MANG!

 

Ok... WANG MANG!

 

I'm going to have to get a group shot of my Wang Mangs. There are 10 Da Quan Wu Shi's, 20+ Huo Quans, a Bu Quan, three spades, and 16 counterfeits.

Goes along nicely with my 38 Ban Liangs and ~200 Wu Zhus.

I might have an addiction...

 

Here is my example with the blade removed.

 

Cmon Ken, how come you don't have any? I know they are heavily faked... Was LOOKING!

 

When I was collecting these I couldnt afford a whole example! Every now and then a good and old collection will come up. There have been several in the last few years.

 

@Ken Dorney : "When I was collecting these I couldnt afford a whole example! Every now and then a good and old collection will come up. There have been several in the last few years."

I was giving you a hard time in fun. Wow, they are pricey. Have looked several times, and they are cool, but expensive!

 

Yea, I know, no worries! They do come up, as do some really nice things. Check out Teutoburger Munzauktion. They frequently do Chinese, but honestly the results are all over the board. I always shake my head in wonderment, either at how much they get or how little they get! Anyway, here is the last one they had, 210 Euro, which I thought was reasonably worth $750 or more:

https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2348&category=46572&lot=1982195

 

Wow, Type-C => that's a very cool OP knife coin (congrats)

Oh, and great thread add-on coins by the rest of the coin-gang



Coincidentally, Wang Mang is what I asked my ex-wife to call me ... it never quite caught-on

 

I asked a dealer about that one, and he said that it was a modern fake. If you look two auctions prior, you will see that Teutoburger had sold the same coin. The buyer had returned it on the grounds that it was fake, and they resold it. That is why the price was so low.

 

Yes. I know. I have watched the auctions, and I know most of the collectors for them and the dealers who offer them. But the paranoia about Chinese coins is rampant. That field of collecting will never be stable as there are too many differing opinions. I have had coins which I showed world renowned dealers and collectors. Some say fake, some say genuine. I have had coins which I showed to some dealers who all said 'fake', but when I showed the same to world renowned collectors, they said, yes, genuine, and paid $1,000 for. As of this date, after nearly 30 years, I have never had a single coin come back for any reason (knock on wood). I do think that example cited above is just fine, but I would have to add the caveat that I did not see it in person. This whole discussion is why I primarily only deal in common Chinese now. And I have sold probably well over 100,000 now (and not a single on ever questioned or returned!).

 

I tried to get interested in cash but never found answers to questions I felt needed addressing. High on the list is how to tell at even a basic level fakes from real coins even in coins fairly priced at a dollar or two. I saw differences and 'hype' for coins being unlisted but never understood why I should consider a coin with a fingernail impression better or different than one without. I could see differences in characters as listed in the catalogs but still no reason that I needed a one dot tong if I already had a two dot. The mindset for collecting cash is very different from that required for Greek and Roman. I enjoy having the couple hundred cash I have (all cheaper and more common than you see sold individually online - Hartill rates most of mine at 14 or 15 on his common scale). To need more, I first need to know why the new ones would be different. I see this in non-round coins but assume all are fake or out of my price range if not both. If a cash fans would like to explain what attracts them to the hobby, I would love to hear.

 

What I like is the calligraphic beauty in each reign title in each kind of script it was produced. For the earlier coins, I buy minor varieties because I can usually tell a story behind them, or because they look cool (in an archaic sense), or (mostly) because I got them for fifty cents or less. I have several "unlisted" varieties, but I don't value them any more than I do the listed ones. Other than that, I collect by type.

As for one-dot tongs and nailmarks, I don't understand why I should have them either. Of the 25 pages of Qian Long cash in Hartill's guide, I find that a few coins of different sizes (15mm-30mm) to be just sufficient. The coins I have with nailmarks just happened to be in a lot I purchased.

When I say I have 200 Wu Zhus, many of those come from a hoard I purchased that had coins from 130 BC to 550 AD. I keep them together for provenance sake and to represent the variety of coins that circulated in 550 AD. The rest are either high-grade coins with attractive patina or significant varieties (rays, cast to look clipped, dots, metallic composition, etc.). Sometimes the presence of a bar or a style of calligraphy can allow a collector to attribute a coin to a specific dynasty or ruler.

To know how to spot the lower-value fakes, it helps to look at a bunch of fakes to know what a bad patina/fabric/calligraphic style looks like. You have a bunch of genuine examples to compare to. Here is a list of counterfeit sellers on eBay I compiled on a different forum.

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=266180

 

As a long time collector and dealer of these coins I also agree on the issue of varieties and types. I just dont see the honest difference between a square bao or a round bao. I do understand the nail marks though. Those are control marks and important to the study of minting practices. Would I pay more for them? Not really, though as a dealer I have to pay more than for those without marks.

As for the other question, what attracts us? For me originally it was price. When I was young and poor I only had a few dollars here and there. The ability to buy a 2,000 year old coin for 25 cents (and in EF condition) was mind blowing for me. Later it became an attraction to the history, the calligraphy, and these days it is for the patina (you can get some truly fantastic blues in Chinese coins).

 

I am an amateur collecting Chinese Cast coinage. I am learning, but still acquire from only trusted sources. However, I have been fortunate to have traveled literally all over China many times on business, have visited several historical sites within China, and have read up on their history and culture. (Yes, it helps in business relationships to understand some language, culture, and history of the folks your dealing with.) Due to this immersion, it is fun to collect a little of China's rich and flowing history through coins and other items.