I can't find one like it - why?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Arthur Chrysler, Jan 24, 2024.

  1. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    Hello. I have just purchased a Carradice type II siglos (5.1g - 15mm) with unusual stylistic characteristics. The oddly curved bow is low, which puts the upper tip at eye level with the shooter. The lower tip is below the knee. Both legs are covered with one continuous row of folds and the reverse incuse is large and round. I can't find one like it and I hesitate to ask why; but, here goes, why?
     

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  3. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    I noticed that one when it was listed. If it is genuine, it is certainly an outstanding example!

    Although I was attracted to its centering and detail, I chose not to pursue acquiring it partly because the weight was a little low -- but mostly because in a few different ways it just appears dissimilar to the myriad of other examples. I scrolled slowly through about 400 full-siglos Type II on ACS, and didn't see even one with similar style/design/features.

    Of course the "Type II" issues were no doubt struck from a very large number of dies, but... this one just seems... to my eyes... a little off. (Likewise, to my eyes, the reverse punch has a degree of dissimilarity.)

    Although I'm fairly familar with Achaemenid coinage and have owned a handful of them, I don't pretend to be an expert. I'm quite curious to see other opinions by those more knowledgeable.
     
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  4. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    I don't know beans about sigloi, but I hope it turns out to be something really special for you!
     
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  5. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Welcome to CT.
     
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  6. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

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  7. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    Thank you for the tip. It's an awesome site, with so many examples, but still no matches. I couldn't even find a match for the large round incuse punch!
     
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  8. lardan

    lardan Supporter! Supporter

    Welcome to Coin Talk, hope it works out for you.
     
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  9. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    Thank you. I will post the outcome soon.
     
  10. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    There has been a weather-related delay in shipping. I will post more info as soon as I can.
     
  11. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    I had it tested, and the result was 93.5% silver. Is this good, or bad news?
     
  12. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    That's a little low, but close to where it should be. I would call it hopeful news. :)

    See the opening paragraph, written by Joe Sermarini, at this web page:
    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=siglos

    Especially note this sentence:
    "Purity was at first issue 97-98% but by the middle 4th century was 94-95%."
     
  13. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    Thanks for the link to Forum. Unfortunately, my siglos is about 100 years too old to parallel the 94% purity. Considering the 5.1g weight (a little light), and 93.5 purity (a little low), and the design peculiarities (a little off), I think that I am 100% satisfied with this one-of-a-kind beauty!
     
  14. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    I found this article that may shed some light on this particular token:
    The "Archers" of Darius: Coinage or Tokens of Royal Esteem? – Cindy L. Nimchuk

    Vol. 32, Medes and Persians: Reflections on Elusive Empires (2002), pp. 55-79 (25 pages) Published By: The Smithsonian Institution

    Abstract

    This article reconsiders the traditional view that the Achaemenid imperial coinage bearing emblems of the Royal Archer (in gold darics and silver sigloi) was instituted by Darius I primarily to serve economic needs as a mode of payment for mercenaries in the west. Traditionally, the Achaemenid Archers are thought to be direct functional successors of the Lydian Croeseid Lion-and-Bull bimetallic coinage. Here, by contrast, the communicative and ideological aspects of the Archers are emphasized over the economic. Reassessment of the state of our knowledge of the introductory phases of the Archer series and of the weight ratios in the Achaemenid system suggests that, unlike the Croeseids, these coins were not initially intended to facilitate monetary exchange. Furthermore, iconographical analysis of the Type I and Type II Archers designed in the reign of Darius I shows the force of the messages these items conveyed as tokens of wealth, power, obligation, identity, and protection. The primary intended recipients of these messages were, the article argues, Persian elites in Asia Minor, with non-Persian elites as a secondary audience. The Archers can thus be considered as part of the system of royal gifting from the king to his nobles that reinforced symbolic relationships by offering tokens of value well beyond the mere guaranteed weight and content of the metal. Rethinking the question of the balance among ideological, political, and economic elements of the Archers provides new perspectives on early coinage and early Achaemenid history.
     
  15. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    @Arthur Chrysler Did you return it? I either saw it or its twin sibling on eBay as a new listing this morning.
     
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  16. Arthur Chrysler

    Arthur Chrysler New Member

    Thanks for the message. I am selling it as a "possibly unpublished siglos." When I took pictures for the listing, I noticed clear signs of crystallization which is evidence of the passage of time, isn't it? I started the bidding at $500.00, hoping that those in the know will end up paying what its true value is. In the meantime, I am delighted to have this strange siglos in my collection!
     
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