eBay's liberal use of PL and DMPL

Does anyone know if a seller's representation of a coin as PL or DMPL (non-TPG) is reason for a return due to SNAD? Basically, if a seller says a coin is PL, but the fields show no mirrors or the devices show no frosting, can the coin be returned for misrepresentation?

(Edit: Added examples of DMPL auction coin that ended on eBay.)

The below was called DMPL by a seller on eBay. I wanted to bid on one of his other Morgans and asked if I could have a day to review the coin, simply to review the PL claim. He responded:

"the pictures are good pictures of the coin. i have no idea what you are expecting. if you are not happy with this coin please do not bid. you have to look at my feedback to realize my opinion is pretty accurate. have a nice day."

 

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This is what ticks me about eBay sellers.

They always say MONSTER TONED GEM BU+++++++ DMPL KEY DATE ULTRA RARE 1945 MERCURY DIME and then the coin looks like this

 

The seller in question didn't do it, but I find it entertaining when I see "MS++++++++ GEM BU DMPL" as the title, then the description says "GRADING IS ONLY AN OPINION. SELLER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR GRADE."

 

I suspect a lot of raw coins get that designation without cause. Only solution I know is to buy an NGC/PCGS slab with the designation in the grade.

Still, a lot of sellers still say "almost DMPL" or "should be PL." That and a nickel will get you nothing, IMHO.

 

The reverse is semi-pl but that's about as good as it gets. He's clueless and sure on the SNAD. Its the definition of SNAD

 

THE +'s are a way for a seller to say the grade is ms63/65/67 etc in his opinion by counting the stars. Although idiot sellers that don't know this use it liberally without knowing the code it represents

 

I believe you'd find that grading is subjective, and if the coin is "raw", as it appears, his opinion is the equivalent of yours.

If you'd look at the similarly graded coins by the "top tier" TPG, you'll experience similar, if not worse gradients. The disparities between those TPG is horrendous.

Many of the sellers will state proof-like grades on TPG certified coins even though the assigned grades state otherwise. You may argue misrepresentation in that event. Sellers generally will argue that the pictures showing the TPG grade represent the coin, but the auction title is only their opinion of a re-submit outcome. I've tested their arguments as an exercise, and they've won.

PL is a very vague term, where DMPL at least has some semblance of universal standards. However the "standards" need only apply to one side, as is normal for a TPG grade expansion.

I collect high grade DMPL coins, and have been very disappointed with TPG variations for identical grades.

JMHO

 

My understanding has always been that both sides must show some degree of frosting in the devices AND the obverse must show the minimum 2" or 6" (PL v DMPL) to qualify for the according labels. I might be incorrect in that it may be both sides that require the mirrors, but I've never heard of a reverse only mirror getting a PL notation.

 

Well if you are a newbie and won't listen to good advice then learn the hard way by being ripped off!! Cascade is totally correct!

 

Frosting does not denote PL - it's the fields being like mirrors that designate a Proof Like coin! Then the devices are then designated as Frosted!

 

Yes - You are very correct - both sides have to qualify as such!!

 

The seller has sent me a follow-up message:

"SINCE YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE COIN PLEASE DO NOT BID ON IT. I DO NOT WANT YOU TO BUY THIS AND TRY TO SEND IT BACK, THANKS, BILL"

In any case, here's a current DMPL that he has listed. I can see the reverse being called Proof like, but would that weird staining on the obverse preclude it from PL?:

I understand that, Markus. I meant that if the entire coin surface is mirrored, it would likely not get a DMPL or PL designation without the frosty devices.

 

That coin is NOT anywhere near PL , let alone DMPL -
I'd stay away from it - the obverse has definite problems - 35$ coin

 

This seller is a total joke

 

Can a DMPL or PL be accurately and reliably determined by photo alone?

 

Sure - if the pic is of good quality and not being "blurred" by a shyster seller!!

 

From those photos it can

 

In theory, yes, but it takes a lot of work... basically, you'd need to have a newspaper and ruler in the shot.

At the very least, you could take a photo of the coin which shows the entire coin in focus. PL coins will show a cameo-like (black/white) effect.

 

Well here is a DMPL - It don't look like this!!

 

Hey hey, now Markus. I'm giving the seller the benefit of poor photography skills. Maybe he really is selling DMPL coins but sucks at taking pictures of them.