My First Coin of 2024, Julian Double Maiorina

I wanted to ring in 2024 by buying a new coin at midnight on New Year's Day (it only just arrived in the mail today) and what better way to start than with a special piece that I've always wanted to have in my collection? As most of us on here probably know, Julian, derisively referred to as "the Apostate" by Christian historians and sometimes "the Philosopher" by supporters, was the last emperor to endorse classical polytheism in an attempt to stem the tide of Christianity first launched into prominence by his uncle Constantine. This coin may perhaps have been the most widespread vessel to spread the emperor's pro-pagan message during his short time in power, with a sacrificial bull prominently placed on the reverse. I love the desert patina on this piece, really brings out some of the key details.



Julian, 361-363 CE
Æ Double Maiorina (28 mm, 8.23 grams)
Obverse: DN FL CL IVLIANUS P F AVG
Rosette-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right
Reverse: SECVRITAS REIPVB / (palm branch) ANT-Δ(I think) (palm branch)
Bull, head facing, standing right. Two stars above
Antioch mint

Feel to post any examples you have of this coin as well!

 

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be careful...that spot on the rim looks like bronze disease.

 

What do I do?

 

Any treatment for BD could possible change the way the patina looks; so I always start with as mild a treatment as possible. I first start with sodium carbonate and mix a bit into water (just enough that dissolves completely...if it falls out of solution, it's too much) and begin soaking. Check frequently and scrub with a toothbrush/ denture brush and rinse and repeat until it looks like all the BD is gone. You will probably notice the water changing color during the soaks; which is normal. As long as the patina is not stripping, I would probably soak for at least a week. Once it looks like the BD is completely gone, I rinse and scrub the coin thoroughly and put in the oven on low heat for a while, to make sure the coin is moisture free. You will need to keep on eye on the coin in case the BD comes back.



I use washing soda for sodium carbonate, like below.

 

I just got back from the grocery store with a gallon of distilled water. It looks like a pretty mild case so I'd like to use as light of a treatment as possible.

 

That's a shame about the BD. Otherwise, it's much better than the one I had.

I wish listings would be more upfront about BD. There was a coin from Zurqieh which I really wanted,so I took a chance. The picture was just overexposed. It was a dark green, stable spot.

 

Those are exactly my thoughts as the coin I got came from Zurqieh. The picture I saw was overexposed and hid any signs of BD so I had no clue. It's a nice coin still, but I probably won't buy from that seller again.

 

Nice one! Cool thing about this coin is that it's mentioned in at least one ancient source. The citizens of Antioch reportedly complaining about the design (which makes it especially interesting that yours is from the Antioch mint!):

“…the bull, which was impressed upon his coin, was a symbol of his having desolated the world. For the emperor, being excessively superstitious, was continually sacrificing bulls on the altars of his idols, and had ordered the impression of a bull and altar to be made on his coin.”
-- The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates Scholasticus
​

Julian II AE1 “Double Maiorina” (29mm, 8.2g), struck in Nicomedia, 361-3 CE.
Obverse: DN FL CL IVLIANVS PF AVG. Pearl-diademed, draped & cuirassed bearded bust right.
Reverse: SECVRITAS REIPVB. Bull standing right, two stars above. Exergue: palm-NIKB-palm.
Reference: RIC 121.​

 

I really like these coins and wish I had more of them. Someday I’d like to get one of each mint… but that may an expensive side collection.

That’s a nice coin and the bronze disease shouldn’t be too hard to treat. Here’s mine from Antioch:

 

The Antioch mint had, in my opinion, by far the best portrait of all the mints. I'd like to pick up a VF or XF example, sometime.

I think vcoins/ma-shops should make a rule that known bronze disease has to be disclosed in any coin over a certain price point.

I once asked the proprietor of Aegean numismatics about a coin, whether it was BD or verdigris, not to be disrepectful in any way, it was just one of those cases where it was kind of unclear. The answer I got was very impressive. He said he doesn't sell coins with BD, they're culled out. I was delighted that I never had to ask him again. David Connors is also pretty good about being upfront about BD.

Zurqieh is pretty bad about disclosing BD or some big problem, but I actually enjoy buying from there. I'm just careful about what I buy. If there's any kind of major red flag, I just stay away.

The photographs are totally unpredictable. A coin which looks toned can actually be toned, or is, in the majority of times, cleaned and shiny. I got lucky with the Parthian coins. They ended up being actually toned and one even ended up being a new variant. All in all, I'm pretty happy.

 

Is the corrosion soft and powdery or hard and immobile? If the latter, it is not BD and you don't need to be concerned. If it is soft and powdery it will be active and there is little you can do yourself, I would recommend contacting a professional metals conservator as the treatments involved involve nasty chemicals.

 

You can tell by the color what it is.

No, the chemicals are completely safe. I just posted a picture of Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda that is pretty safe unless you are drinking it or pouring it in your eyes...so don't do that!




here's a Julian II overstruck with an unofficial Constans FEL TEMP





and
an unofficial Julian



Julian II
A.D. 360-363
24x25mm 6.1gm
D N FL C IVLI-ANVS P F AVG; pearl-diademed, draped, & cuirassed bust right.
SECVRITAS REIPVB; Bull, head facing, standing right; above, two stars; at right, eagle standing on wreath, holding another wreath in beak.
In ex. SCONST
copying RIC VIII Arles 318

 

Colour is not always indicative of 'BD'. Consistency is.

'The chemicals are completely safe' - I'm not talking about washing soda (which doesn't work). I'm talking about things like Benzotriazole - which is a carcinogenic. The find would have to be lacquer-sealed in a vacuum chamber following treatment to prevent further corrosion.

I have worked in the sphere of metals conservation professionally.

 

Great...I have been cleaning coins and treating BD for 30 years as a professional.

 

Then you'll know all about benzotriazole

 

Yes, I have some and don't ever use it as there are much easier and safer ways to treat BD, that are very effective.

 

Right, but you do apply washing up soda and then put the coin in an oven to 'remove moisture' - which is fine except that the instant you remove it from the oven the moisture levels are back to whatever the humidity of the room is, which means that the corrosion triangle then is complete again since active corrosion if left untreated only requires oxygen and a relative humidity of +35% to continue eating into the metal. That's why the corrosion has to be first treated chemically, then placed in an environment totally devoid of oxygen and moisture followed by lacquer sealing while in that environment . No oxygen, no moisture and proper dry storage equals the arresting of active corrosion. With respect, I personally doubt those things can be achieved securely with household goods and a kitchen oven. However, I'm an open minded man - change my mind!

 

Before and after using precisely the method I described above. Treated in 2012, and years later and the coin is fine. This is just one example of many dozens/ hundreds that I have treated. I am not sure why I need to prove this to someone who seems to have no experience with this method...but fine.

 

Any good scientist would show their working when writing a scientific paper on how an experiment ended up. I think you are taking this personally when that isnt what this is about. At the end of the day you're telling me a method works, I'm asking the context behind it working and understanding how the process operates when from my reading there seem to be holes in the science.

You've handled the coin above and I haven't. Having said that, while the colour is bright the green doesn't look particularly powdery. As I'm sure you're aware, hard bright green deposits can occur on coins which are totally inert and not active. I have stycas in my collection with these on and they are rock hard deposits overlying pitting. This is not the same as active corrosion or 'bronze disease'.