Someone has got to explain this one to me... PCGS

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by geekpryde, Jan 14, 2024.

?

Who Is the Crazy Person here?

  1. geekpryde

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  2. PCGS

    9 vote(s)
    64.3%

  3. Coin Doctor

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  4. Submitter

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%

  5. Someone else

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%
Page 1 of 3
  1. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Either PCGS has lost their minds, or I am even dumber than I thought.

    Look at the coin, and tell me, how in the world is this graded anything other than body-bagged as damaged?

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/47859285

    [​IMG]

    o_O


    Please someone explain it to me, I honestly need to understand this.


    p.s. NO, I am not taking about the insane and very likely oven baked toning (is there a doctor in the house?), look again.
     
    geekpryde, Jan 14, 2024
    #1 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato, Tall Paul and SensibleSal66 like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    The edge on the left side of the reverse side is damaged/scraped.
     
    paddyman98, Jan 14, 2024
    #2 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  4. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    We can explain it to you, but we can't understand it for you.

    You would have to understand PCGS's two unwritten rules:

    #1 -

    #2 -

    So, there you have it! :jawdrop::smuggrin:;)
     
    PlanoSteve, Jan 14, 2024
    #3 + Quote Reply
    ZoidMeister, Clawcoins, green18 and 5 others like this.
  5. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    Would they have considered it a ragged edge clip?
     
    wxcoin, Jan 14, 2024
    #4 + Quote Reply
  6. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    The first rule about PCGS Grading is we don't talk about PCGS Grading. Or was that FIght CLub?
     
    Burton Strauss III, Jan 14, 2024
    #5 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato, Barney McRae, Vess1 and 1 other person like this.
  7. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Not exactly, but you're on the right track. This coin was struck on a planchet that was tapered on the reverse. The upset rim falls away very noticeably in corresponding locations (7:30 & 9:00 obverse and 9:00 & 10:30 reverse). My guess is that this planchet is underweight and, had the submitter properly attributed this coin and submitted it for error service, PCGS would have weighed and attributed it as such.
     
    ToughCOINS, Jan 14, 2024
    #6 + Quote Reply
    geekpryde, ddddd and wxcoin like this.
  8. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    That area looks awful rough, even for an unstruck (tapered) area of a planchet. Planchets are not smooth, but this is a bit too much roughness. Just my thoughts...
     
    Jersey magic man, Jan 14, 2024
    #7 + Quote Reply
    Tater and geekpryde like this.
  9. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    It's pretty hard to explain the tapering in the upset rim without material having been missing before strike, no?

    As concerns the roughness of the area of concern, I would not expect the surface of the planchet in that area to look normal. Because it is thinner there, it was either not calendered in that area (edge or end of coil), or subsurface grain was exposed after delamination of the planchet and before strike.
     
    ToughCOINS, Jan 14, 2024
    #8 + Quote Reply
    ldhair likes this.
  10. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    Looks like someone had enough of scratching non winning Lotto tickets for Christmas and threw it in the fireplace.
    That would explain the marks/attribute as well as PCGS. No?:p
     
    rte, Jan 14, 2024
    #9 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  11. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the eagle looks like he is smoking something.
     
    Sting 60, Jan 14, 2024
    #10 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  12. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Thank you for the answer.

    So if this is a legit planchet flaw, how does a TPG go from differentiating this from say, me just dragging the coin on the pavement? Because this is what it looks like to me, road rash.
     
    geekpryde, Jan 14, 2024
    #11 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato likes this.
  13. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    If this was indeed post mint damage, for the disturbed surface of the planchet to align so perfectly between the points where the upset rim falls away would be an extraordinary coincidence, would it not?

    Moreover, how does one explain the falling away of the upset rim, if no material was missing when the rim was upset in the first place?
     
    ToughCOINS, Jan 14, 2024
    #12 + Quote Reply
  14. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Being a straight graded toner, it might have hurt the value if it was designated as an error (plus cost more to submit it). On the other hand, it would have been less likely that someone would think it was damage (I also originally thought it was damage but your explanation has changed my mind).
     
    ddddd, Jan 14, 2024
    #13 + Quote Reply
  15. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    That is not what a tapered planchet looks like.
    That I believe is damage from a sorting and counting machine. It happens when two coins are bound going into the counting chamber.
    That coin did not leave the mint in that condition. I have a 2001 that has the same damage.
    PCGS screwed the pooch.
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Jan 14, 2024
    #14 + Quote Reply
    Tater and Dan Galbato like this.
  16. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Can we see photos of your coin?
     
    ToughCOINS, Jan 14, 2024
    #15 + Quote Reply
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Yeah, let me find it. The only reason I kept it was for the odd IDB.
    Give me few.
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Jan 14, 2024
    #16 + Quote Reply
  18. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter

    I'm guessing the photo is juiced and it looks nothing like this in hand.
     
    Vess1, Jan 14, 2024
    #17 + Quote Reply
  19. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Here it is, quite a bit more circulated, and not photogenic. When I found the coin I thought the same as you that it would weigh less and could be a rough planchet that either didn't strike up well or was light and could be a tapered planchet. This one tedders between 11.29 and 11.3g on the scale.
    upload_2024-1-14_14-11-58.jpeg
    upload_2024-1-14_14-12-24.jpeg
    Here is Error ref page on tapered planchets.
    https://www.error-ref.com/?s=tapered+planchet
    Also I spent a bit of time looking for a tapered planchet error on a Kennedy half and couldn't find one. I then looked to see what a weak strike (Blakesley effect) looks like on a clipped planchet. I have yet to find with that kind of roughness. Then I went to see what the surfaces of a type 2 blank look like, and none have that roughness. And there are plenty out there with heavily striated surfaces. But nothing that rough. I want to add in a third point. Also, a proto rim from the upset machine cannot form on one side of the planchet and not on the other.
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Jan 14, 2024
    #18 + Quote Reply
  20. ifthevamzarockin

    ifthevamzarockin Well-Known Member

    Looks like PMD to me.

    upload_2024-1-14_15-35-40.jpeg
     
    ifthevamzarockin, Jan 14, 2024
    #19 + Quote Reply
    Dan Galbato, Joshua Lemons and geekpryde like this.
  21. ifthevamzarockin

    ifthevamzarockin Well-Known Member

    MS-66 :wacky::yack:o_O
     
    ifthevamzarockin, Jan 14, 2024
    #20 + Quote Reply
    geekpryde and Kentucky like this.
29 more messages...
Page 1 of 3
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page