The Groans of the Britons

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Magnus Maximus, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    The last Roman officials and troops left the province of Britannia in 410 for the final time. Roman presence in Britain had been drawing down since Stilicho's campaign against the Picts and saxons a decade before, Constantine III's revolt against Honorius was just the nail in the coffin. Roman culture and traditions continued on for some time, there are reports of Bath houses being in use for another 50 years in some parts of the island. By 450 the conditions on the island had deteriorated though, Irish and saxon raids plagued the coast lines while Hadrian's wall fell into disuse and the Picts subsequently raided as far as London. There is also some evidence of internal strife as well, possibly a civil war between factions of the Romanized Britons. The last recorded contact between the Roman province of Britannia and the Imperial government was around 450; the plea for help, recorded by Gildas, has survived.
    To Agitius, thrice consul: the groans of the Britons. [...] The barbarians drive us to the sea, the sea drives us to the barbarians; between these two means of death, we are either killed or drowned.

    The Roman government could not help them though, Britons were left to their own fate.
    As a result of the raids by the Picts, the Britons invited saxon mercenaries to fight the picts and we all know how that turned out for them!:hungover:

    I am shocked at how quickly Imperial power eroded in the years leading up to 410, it was only 30 years before that Magnus Maximus had successfully defeated the barbarians and secured Britain, and only 50 since Constantius II and Julian had secured the Imperial boarders and tamed the tribes beyond the Rhine.....

    My latest coin was deposited by a wealthy Roman land owner around 410 when things were going to hell in a hand basket. I hope that the former owner survived the turmoil of the next few decades, if not then I hope that he rests in peace.
    This coin was one of 653 Siliqua that were deposited in Dorset England and is referred to as the Gussage All Saints Hoard.
    The earliest coins date from Constantius II, and the latest from Emperor Honorius.
    The man I purchased this coin from said he worked with the British finds officer and purchased the coin directly from CNG. See https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=283837
    s-l1600 (8).jpg
    s-l1600 (9).jpg
    Constantius II. AD 337-361. AR Siliqua (18mm, 2.09 g, 6h). Arelate (Arles) mint, 1st officina. Struck AD 355-363. Pearl-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right / VOTIS / XXX / MVLTIS / XXXX within wreath; PCON. RIC VIII 261 and 291; RSC 342-3r. Near VF, toned.

    Ex 2010 Gussage All Saints Hoard (PAS Ref. DOR-A1CCB1; NC 171 [2011], no. 54).


    The jar that the coins were found in, it currently resides in the British museum
    s-l1600 (10).jpg
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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
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  3. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Interesting write up and great coin :)
     
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  4. Great write up.
    Mine (and only siliqua)
    Constantius II Siliqua.png
    Constantius II AD 353-360. DN CONSTAN-TIVS PF AVG, pearl-diademed, draped, curassed bust right / VOTIS XXX MVLTIS XXXX within wreatch, SCON in ex.
    17.4mm
    2.2g
     
  5. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    another cool coin and write up MM!

    neat you even know the jar they were found in, doesn't look like you could cram that many coin in the jar!
     
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  7. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    You can tell I have nothing better to do with my life as I can pretty much ID the mint of most Siliquae I see based off of the style of the obverse.
    Nearly every coin from Arles has that distinct bust style of your coin.
    Nice one you have there.
    Compare to this.
    s-l1600 (3).jpg

    The OP coin's style is very different than any other Arles Siliquae I've come across.
    I wonder if @SIliquae has a comparable example.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
  8. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Terrific coin and a wonderful provenance to go with the write-up @Magnus Maximus. I often wonder what became of all those who were unable to retrieve the coins they hid....

    My only silver siliquae is a modest example of Honorius without any clue as to where or how it was found....
     
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  9. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    @Mikey Zee I know what you mean. It's kind of odd to know that I'm the third man to own this coin since the original owner buried it.
    Luckily if the owner of my coin stayed in Dorset, the site of the buried coins, he shouldn't have been killed by Saxons or Picts as Dorset held out for a few hundred years against the barbarians and didn't experience any major raids.
     
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  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nice write up MagMax! Man, what a cool provenance, hoard, and legacy... this coin fits RIGHT IN to your collecting focus, and has a really cool story to tell!

    Do you know where in Dorset the hoard was found? (Dorset is a County).
     
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  11. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    Fantastic coin, and even better provenance! Just shy of when King Arthur supposedly popped into the picture...
     
  12. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    @Alegandron
    Gussage All Saints, which is in east Dorset.
    @FitzNigel Thanks. I almost didn't even put up the OP write up due to the fact that I'm pretty much blind after 402 CE until the age of Justinian.
    Why don't you take up the mantle and finish the story!:)
     
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  13. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    Oh boy @Magnus Maximus - you asked for it! Here's a bit from a lecture I put together on King Arthur, preparing my students to study some of the primary sources over the course of a few weeks and argue the position of whether Arthur was real or not (please forgive spelling or grammar errors - while it can be read as a narrative it was really a guideline for me - I keep it this detailed to make sure I don't go on too many tangents!)

    Adventus Saxonum (The coming of the Saxons)
    image.png

    How and why Britain is invaded is unknown to us.
    - The Historian Bede, writing some 200 years after the event, tells us that one of the forming Briton Kingdoms invited a band of Saxon warriors over to act as mercenaries, since they were defenseless without the Romans
    - These Saxons then saw just how helpless the Britons were, and decided they would take the Island for themselves. Inviting over more Saxons, plus other Germanic peoples such as the Angles and the Jutes
    The Saxons and other Germans then went about conquering the Island, pushing the Britons towards the edges, into the hilly areas of Modern Wales and Scotland

    That is the story Bede tells us. There may be some reality to it, as Bede tends to be a reliable source, but he is not a contemporary source. So there are still many questions and problems.

    Firstly, while there is no contemporary source, it is clear that the Romans military and civil authority had waned between 410 and 450 and was being replaced by a network of states ruled by local kings who retained some form of the Roman institutions, but otherwise reverted to their pre-roman Celtic and tribal patterns

    Britain, under the Romans did have to contend with Saxon raiders, and there was a garrison in South-East Britain meant to protect the island from these raiders
    - Surely, as Rome withdrew, the Saxon raiders would have had more opportunities for plunder, and it seems they began to settle on the island after a time, rather than just taking booty back to their homes in Saxony

    The Saxons and other Germans would then start setting up their own kingdoms in the south and east of the Island
    - In the early Sixth Century, these Germans begin to push further towards the west, and by the Mid-Sixth Century, the whole of the East and center portions of modern England would be under Germanic rule.
    - The West Saxons had also reached as far as the Bristol Channel, cutting off Devon and Cornwall from their Celtic neighbors to the North.
    - By the end of the century, the Britons held only the west coast, and a large number of them had crossed the channel into North-Western France (hence, why it’s called “Brittany” or Britain the lesser, and the Isle of Britain is known as Great Britain (or Greater Brittany))

    The Earliest Sources
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    The story of how Britain was invaded by these German tribes could only be reconstructed with the smallest amount of evidence. The difficulty of then figuring out who Arthur was during these events is even more difficult, and darn-near impossible
    - The few texts the exist lend us to believe that Arthur was a Briton, or at least fought with the Britons, against the invading Saxons

    The Historical sources left by the Saxons, as the victors in this struggle with the Britons, leaves no mention of Arthur (and why should they? They are interested in their own victories)
    - The Britons, as one could imagine, were probably disinclined to record a record of their own defeats, but also had little tradition of a written history

    The written records of the Welsh, as we would come to call the native Britons, do not begin until the eleventh and twelfth centuries. Any texts supposedly from the 8th century or earlier are only known from manuscripts dating to the thirteenth or fourteenth centuries
    - Meaning that they could be authentic primary sources, but we have no way of knowing for certain

    The Earliest possible source for an historical Arthur is left by a monk and saint named Gildas.
    - Gildas was a Briton, and he tells us that he was born during the year of the battle of Mount Badon (of which Arthur was supposedly involved), but he does not say what year this battle took place, nor does any other source sufficiently identify the year. However, if this information were true, we can say that Gildas was a near-contemporary of Arthur
    - Gildas was primarily concerned with writing a text on the religious evils of the kings of his day, and is very sparse with specific information.

    Our next source relevant to an Historical Arthur is again Bede, in his work The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, written in the mid-Eighth Century, or two hundred years after Arthur may have lived
    - Bede was an Angle writing at the Monasteries of Monkwearmouth and Jarrow in Northern England (near the Tyne River)
    - Bede tells us little more than what Gildas provides, but Bede was a much better and more careful compiler of information than Gildas. Bede may have simply used Gildas as his source, but if he obtained the same information elsewhere, then he corroborates what Gildas tells us.

    Writing around the same time as Bede is the so-called Nennius; a name attributed to an anonymous work entitled Historia Brittonum, or The History of the Britons
    - The Historia Brittonum provides some actual details on Arthur as a war leader, and lists the battles he was engaged in – including the Battle of Badon.
    - However, it also includes some clear myths concerning Arthur, bringing into question some of the legitimacy of the rest of the work

    Next, the Annales Cambriae or Welsh Annales provides some dates for Arthur’s battles of Badon and the Battle of Camlann where Arthur died. The date of this source is the mid tenth century, or 400 years after Arthur likely lived

    The Anglo-Norman Historian William of Malmesbury is the next to provide us with some details in his Gesta Regum Anglorum (or Deeds of the Kings of England) where he briefly mentions Arthur and Mount Badon, and how the Bretons (those living in Brittany) speak of Arthur commonly and that he is a well known figure from history.
    - William of Malmesbury’s book was written around the year 1125

    Geoffrey of Monmouth
    image.png

    It is at this point that the source material for Arthur becomes prolific, but how factual it is, is difficult to say.

    We clearly know who is responsible for the popularity of the story of King Arthur, and that is Geoffrey of Monmouth – a 12th century Bishop, and supposed Historian.

    Geoffrey’s most popular work was the Historia Regum Britanniae or The History of the Kings of Britain, written sometime in the 1130s.
    - Geoffrey was likely a descendent of the Bretons who were given lordship over the region of Monmouth with the Norman Conquest (while the Anglo-Saxons invaded Britain in the sixth century, the Normans (from Northern France) would invade themselves in the eleventh century).
    - Now, the Bretons were descendants of those Celtic people who had inhabited Brittany in Northern France. So it is likely Geoffrey has some interest in Wales where his ancestors may have come from

    Geoffrey claims that his book was a translation from an ancient Welsh history.
    - We have no way to prove or disprove his claim, however some linguists say that Geoffrey’s command of Welsh is so poor, that he could not possibly have translated such a work into Latin.
    - Also, Geoffrey comes under criticism for including contemporary events in what was suppose to be a translation.
    - That has been used as more evidence that his “history” is a fake, but it is not unusual for Medieval authors to elaborate on works that they are copying or translating

    End this portion of the lecture.

    One of the interesting tidbits Geoffrey of Monmouth provides is the story of Arthur's conception and birth. He says the the magician Merlin enabled the Briton King Vortigern to lay with the princess Igrain, disguised as her husband. Arthur was then born nine months later at Tintagel in Cornwall. I was just at Tinyagel in my recent trip to the UK:

    image.jpeg
    (Foundations of small buildings at Tintagel, dating to about the 6th century, if memory serves correctly...)

    Even more interesting though, is that while I was there, Archaeologists were uncovering a palace at Tintagel that dates from the period...
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...ntagel-dark-ages-palace-camelot-a7168761.html
     
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  14. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    That was amazing.
    10/10
    download.jpg
     
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  15. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I recall visiting Britain some years back and especially liked Verulamium (Saint Albans), an important Roman site. When there, I visited a near by book store and purchased a book by a local author who posited the opinion Romanized Britons managed to hold out in an enclave in the nearby Chiltern Hills against the Germanic invaders past 600 AD, a time when Romanized Britannia was pretty much gone in the island. The evidence the author produced for this iffy and he may have just been anxious to hype the local history but I recall reading elsewhere that there may be truth to this theory. Anybody know of a Romanized Briton community there surviving this late?
     
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  16. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Well this is certainly interesting! Turns out I have some family that came from Dorset in the 1700's.
    Interesting to say the least...
     
  17. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Excellent writeup...very enjoyable.
     
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  18. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Very informative MM, interesting history and great coin.
     
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I always wondered why everyone wanted a transition from one of the Greatest Empires of Man to slide into the Dark Ages...

    This was a great scene in "The Life of Brian" that summed it up well... :D

    upload_2016-9-16_18-51-54.png
     
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  20. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    => hey MM, get back to studying!! (there's no time for coins when you're searching for tail and learnin' stuff!!)

    *focus*

    Kung Fu.jpg


    :rolleyes:

    ... just jokes (there is always time for coins and searching for tail!!)
     
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