2009 Ultra high relief Saint is the PL version worth the extra cost ?

After a similar thread I have started looking at one of these for my next
purchase the 3 options are raw with
a COA and box, graded MS 70 and the
third being MS70PL so my question is
MS70PL worth the substantial extra price
here’s some examples I found.

 

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/3150679116...LnC+VMo8UDKk/lQHqvU5biXJU=|tkp:Bk9SR-Tb2oecYw

 

I like raw in the wooden display. Actually the difference in cost is not the main reason of my choice, wouldn't be selling it anyway. I just like it better raw in the display.

 

You could get two non-PL coins for the price of one PL coin. I'd look for a lower cost PL coin. Now if that is the only PL coin for that year then maybe.

 

Looked upon as bullion.......no premium.

 

I've paid more than $2500 for the original boxed coin, and sold some for more than that!

When they were originally produced with an announced 1/buyer, I paid individuals 10% above their cost to buy them for me!

 

If you are going to get more than one....I would buy a RAW COA OGP plus a graded one for easy handling and viewing, 70 or 69.

I would get a PL or DPL if the price was right. The prices OFFERED you saw seem very high. Check completed sales at ebay, HA, and GC.

I have not checked the prices of these in years but they were in a bubble from 2009-11 and then prices fell bigtime. Personally, I would only pay about a 10-15% premium over bullion for the ungraded raw....maybe 20-30% for a 70 or 69. If you REALLY like the look of the PL or DPL, I wouldn't go over $3,000.

Again, that's based on my pricing from a few years ago, maybe pre-Covid. Pricing may have changed substantially (gold bullion has) but those are my general guidelines, give or take a few hundred dollars (which to me would not be a dealbreaker).

I have to say....I love this coin....but I really wish they would have used the 34 mm diameter size. The coin seems "short and stubby" to me to compensate for the extra fineness of the gold. I don't know if they could have replicated the original 34 mm Saint-Gaudens MCMVII diameter and dimensions given the metallic composition...they would have had to cut the thickness if they went to 34 mm and kept the gold purity the same.

Or....to keep the thickness the same as it is now, or to keep it the same as the MCMVII HR's given the smaller gold content...maybe make the coin slighly OVER 1 ounce of pure gold.

 

There’s even more choices just picked out
a few examples typically I would go for
the coin in a PCGS holder though the example in the wooden box is nice I would
like a TPG example and depending on what’s out there when I am ready.

 

Please PM with a link when you locate that DMPL for $3000!

 

But they had to go with the greater thickness to get the ultra-high relief, as I understand it. These weren't recreations of the early high-relief strikes, but of an earlier pattern with the diameter of a $10 gold.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/ultra-high-relief-double-eagles-2009/941

And I still want one, although I'd also welcome a high-relief full-diameter strike. Maybe for the 100th anniversary of 1933.

 

GoldFinger1969, post: 24880557, member: 73489"]If you are going to get more than one....I would buy a RAW COA OGP plus a graded one for easy handling and viewing, 70 or 69.

I would get a PL or DPL if the price was right. The prices OFFERED you saw seem very high. Check completed sales at ebay, HA, and GC.

I have not checked the prices of these in years but they were in a bubble from 2009-11 and then prices fell bigtime. Personally, I would only pay about a 10-15% premium over bullion for the ungraded raw....maybe 20-30% for a 70 or 69. If you REALLY like the look of the PL or DPL, I wouldn't go over $3,000.

Again, that's based on my pricing from a few years ago, maybe pre-Covid. Pricing may have changed substantially (gold bullion has) but those are my general guidelines, give or take a few hundred dollars (which to me would not be a dealbreaker).

I have to say....I love this coin....but I really wish they would have used the 34 mm diameter size. The coin seems "short and stubby" to me to compensate for the extra fineness of the gold. I don't know if they could have replicated the original 34 mm Saint-Gaudens MCMVII diameter and dimensions given the metallic composition...they would have had to cut the thickness if they went to 34 mm and kept the gold purity the same.

Or....to keep the thickness the same as it is now, or to keep it the same as the MCMVII HR's given the smaller gold content...maybe make the coin slighly OVER 1 ounce of pure gold.

Now, all you need are some Emojis.

 

IM, at the time, with gold around $1,600 when I was actively watching them, you saw trades for less than a 100% premium.

 

When these were produced, as I recall, only one/buyer was allowed, so I offered a 10% premium to any of my associates who could afford same and was interested!

I acquired 6 coins, which I felt all had extraordinary "strike", so I wouldn't pay a premium to a grader who may not have seen comparative coins!

JMHO

 

I bought this MS-70 graded piece when gold was in the dulldrums and the prices were coming down for the coin. I bought it from a dealer who was totally PO'd and down about the coin. I bought it because the one the mint sent me was a die polished piece of crap.

Here's what the mint sent to me.



Here's the MS-70.



If you buy the raw coin, it came with a very informative book about how modern dies are made with photos and lasers. I don't know if dealers include it these days.

The coin was made from the 1907 Ultra High Relief pattern $20 gold coin which was diameter of a $10 gold piece with double the thickness. It is a very close copy to that coin, and that made it cool in my opinion. Here are the pictures I took of the two surviving examples of this pattern.



Mint officials were looking for a way to make a high relief coin for Teddy Roosevelt. It would have taken an Act of Congress to make this coin legal. They struck 20 of them and melted all but two.

 

Wow, doesn't say much for quality control, huh ?

I have extras somewhere if anybody needs a copy. It's a pretty good book explaining how technology is used to make near-perfect coins each time.

But the higher gold content -- 0.9999 fine -- made the coin smaller diamter-wise than a regulat Saint or the pattern.

Smithsonian ?

I didn't know they struck 20 fully-detailed coins....I thought they were just partial strikes and obverse or reverse only's. Probably covered in Roger Burdette's Saints or RoAC books for anybody who wants more info.

 

Yes, the two remaining coins in the Smithsonian are struck on both sides.