Check this CAC grading comparison

That is an entirely different position than what you stated the JA position was. You know this. The JA Statement can't possibly be described as a "reversal", and then convoluting CAC vs. CACG.

Either you are not understanding the difference of your statement vs. the JA Statement, or you are being deliberately obtuse.

I also believe that based on other commentary concerning CAC OR CACG grading, that you do not understand the Mission and purpose and practice of the 2 entities and what the entities are doing for Joe The Collector.

 

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In a A CAC 64 vs a non CAC 65 scenario. If the CAC 64 less MV than the non cac 65 per CPG not a deal for me. I know how to grade and view coins. In seeing all the CACG details coins on eBay…..makes me wonder what’s going on. How does pop pct that material compare w other TPG. It’s a considerable expense getting coins graded. If I felt a TPG ripping me giving excessive incorrect lower or details grades (say to prop up their image) would terminate my biz w them. They can have their mission or whatever.

 

Is it your position that CACG is deliberately details grading pieces for the purpose of "ripping" submitters and the "excessive" details grades that you state you have observed on eBay are due to some nefarious plan by the entity?

You state you know how to grade and view coins. You do not have to be reminded that viewing an image, on eBay or other platforms, is not comparable to viewing the piece in hand, regardless of the self proclaimed expertise of the person doing so. You also would not have to be reminded...since you know how to view and grade coins....that it is impossible to grade a Mint state piece from images.

Your commentary suggests that you have doubt that the CACG details graded pieces are correct in you opinion, and accordingly, a percentage comparison of details graded pieces to total pieces graded by CACG vs. the same comparisons to other TPGs is necessary to conclude or dismiss your negative-tilted suspicions, and that somehow...since TPG/4PG grading is a considerable expense, there is a supportive link to your opinion.

If my interpretation of your remarks is correct, don't be offended when I state I doubt you are correct and I doubt you do understand the mission (or whatever).

 

Charley, I'm just trying to see what CACG is doing now vs. what JA and CAC said 15 years ago. That's it.

And yeah, at the time -- and he certainly has the right to change his mind, I fully agree -- but JA said he had no intention of creating an additional TPG under the CAC banner.

So...the reversal on how "C" coins are treated (not "D" or "F" coins clearly overgraded) is what has changed. Back in the early-days (and maybe in recent years, too) CAC saw lots of heavily bagged coins that nonetheless got a grade like MS-65 and JA/CAC concurred it was OK for a 65 but not a CAC sticker.

What he is saying now is that if he sees the same exact MS-65 "C" coin, it would NOT be graded or cross to a CACG MS-65 holder. The CAC holder is implying solid for the grade -- like an "A" or "B" coin meriting a CAC sticker.

If I'm wrong on this (and I have been corrected a few times already, so I'm not discounting the possibility ), tell me what I posted was wrong.

 

It appears they have shifted to a very conservative grading scheme, akin to technical grading (or at least aspects of it).

That is why so many coins are being downgraded NOT 1 or even 2 grades...but going from Mint State to AU...or getting Details grades.

I really don't have a dog in this hunt, but I am trying to learn the rules. That's all.

 

The way things have worked in the past, the rules will change if you are into this for a few years.

 

OK. Between your CAC/CACG commentary here and on the NGC Board, You don't appear to want to "learn the rules" concerning CAC/CACG. I have mentioned to you on prior occasions...simply navigate to the CAC Forum.

You won't or don't, and that is an impediment to you learning anything or trying to understand anything.

This latest post of yours is wrong on every point you opine. It is not worth the effort to correct you, because you simply are going to continue CAC/CACG provocative lookatme Posts.

 

CACG merchandise has its fans and detractors. There are those who like it and vice versa. I have some and just mark them up for retail sale. With a show coming up I look forward how many will be out there on the bourse and if any want to acquire. Sold out of CAC stickered coins my purchases going forward from that class will be CACG.

 

Why would you want to? Considering your previous comments, you certainly were not conveying trust in the entity or the Mission (or whatever).

Is it not adding insult to injury to then declare going forward you will not be purchasing CAC stickered pieces?

There seems to be a blarney factor involved, when you opine concerning CAC/CACG. Maybe that is the issue.

Truth in editing: added a "y" where appropriate.

 

I have no problem going there and intend to.

But many of the people on other forums belong to CAC Forum and they themsleves don't know what to make of things. And they have light-years more experience than me.

You keep saying that but don't offer any examples. You're free to do that, but it's not helpful.

 

Your reply is another example of a " my dad is bigger than your dad" reply.

I have 2 suggestions:

1)Don't intend....DO.

2) Post the questions/comments/assumptions that you have stated on this Thread and NGC Board, exactly as worded here and @ NGC. I do not doubt at all that you will be informed. I realize you do not have the time or inclination to go back and start from the CAC Forum beginning, although doing so will and would have enlightened you with fact.

As to me not being helpful, you have at your disposal to help you an entire in-depth CAC Forum that will enlighten you as to why I "keep saying that". It is because it is fact, and the examples are Legion on the CAC Board.

Your observation concerning "many of the people on other forums" might benefit from navigating to CAC and asking questions directly to JA and/or any of the Graders or Staff at CACG. after all, you will receive a reply. Name me another TPG/4PG that has the same courtesy and collector interest by actively communicating on a daily basis on the CAC Board. You do not have to be a member to join.

So, why haven't you? You certainly have enough time to be titillating concerning any subject concerning CAC/CACG.

You have a fondness for Saints.

I can suggest 2 individuals on the CAC Board that can enlighten you with all things Saints:

Elite and Vincent.Savage. Then come back here and share with others what you have learned. It will definitely be more factual than what you have posted on the subject in the past.

You and I might be able to have a factual informed discussion, then. Anything is possible.

 

Dan is attempting to educate you. READ AND COMPREHEND. Don't use gobbledygobbledness, as you usually have a tendency to use.

 

People might be more receptive to your suggestions and sharing of knowledge if you left out the personal attacks such as above.

Just MY personal observation.

 

If your opinion is my commentary was a personal attack, you are not very familiar with what I am capable of.

Hang in there, and wait.

 

No my opinion is that your responses are more often than not unnecessarily snarky and it's off putting. Our goal in this hobby should be to attract interest, not drive it away. If you truly wish for someone to become more educated about something, insulting them is probably not the best way to nurture that interest.

I had more written out but removed it because it's detracting from the purpose of this thread. I'm merely suggesting you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And a good day to you sir.

 

Here’s a reminder of why I blocked this member, and will be reverting to that setting again.

 

OK. Thanks.

 

Gee whiz, I'm wounded. Yet here you are. Band wagon jumper. Sigh.....

 

GoldFinger1969, posted: "But are a fluorescent light and a scope going to be used on the assembly line that is today's TPGs ? I wonder...."

No, probably not. However, at NGC I was granted permission to have and use both on my desk in addition to the usual 100W incandescent bulb. Therefore, I've never been concerned about what others do

I'd have no problem wagering my coin's grade if you were grading it, Insider. But what about some kid who dabbled in coins....took some courses....and got a job at a TPG and has been on the job for a few years ? No way all the TPG graders have the knowledge that someone like you does or even some of the posters here at CT.[/QUOTE]

We all started somewhere, and I'll guarantee that the young guys that get hired at the major services are grading champs (who will improve) pulled from coin dealer families and standouts at Summer Seminar. Our newest grader never had a class in his life and within two years he has reached professional level. Anyone can do it. I did.

Grading a coin is easy. Putting a value on it is difficult. Learning to authenticate coins is what most cannot do mainly because they never looked at the surface of coins under very high magnification fifty years ago BEFORE FAKE US COINS GOT SO DECEPTIVE THAT THEY GET INTO SLABS! Thankfully, sooner or later even the best fakes become detected.

PS @GoldFinger1969

Grading an AU coin AU is not technical grading! It is "correct grading" when a coin is not Mint State. What has been going on in the grading business is just like saying any decent counterfeit coin is genuine because it looks genuine.

 

I don't disagree, Insider.

It's just that many people who I respect on both sides of the aisle couldn't come to a definitive answer as to whether "discoloration" on high points was friction, rub, wear, poor strike, etc.

We've had threads like that here at CT where we go back-and-forth...I and others learn alot....but we also aren't sure there is a definitive answer on some questions that are critical to esablishing a correct grade.